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Old 09-18-2007, 07:37 PM   #1
David B
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Default Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Hopkins beat Tarver who beat Jones,but Jones was never the lineal champ.Erdei is the real lineal champ,he beat Gonzales who beat Dariusz M. who beat Virgill Hill.Since there was no linear light-heavy champ Dariusz M. unified the WBA,IBF and WBO titles by beating Hill and automatically became the linear champ.He then vacated the wba and ibf titles but still became the man to beat.Eventually Gonzales defeated Dariusz M. and Erdei defeated Gonzales making him the linear champ.
So why on earth was Jones regarded as the ring champ at light-heavy,then Tarver and eventually Hopkins?
It doesn't make sense........
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Are you saying that Roy Jones Jr never deserved to be the RING champion at 175?
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.

Going on your way of judging it, it wouldnt just be Hopkins who wouldnt be Ring champ, people like Calzaghe etc.. wouldnt be either.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Hopkins is the now at light heavyweight without a doubt, Dawson should be at #2....
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
Hopkins beat Tarver who beat Jones,but Jones was never the lineal champ.Erdei is the real lineal champ,he beat Gonzales who beat Dariusz M. who beat Virgill Hill.Since there was no linear light-heavy champ Dariusz M. unified the WBA,IBF and WBO titles by beating Hill and automatically became the linear champ.He then vacated the wba and ibf titles but still became the man to beat.Eventually Gonzales defeated Dariusz M. and Erdei defeated Gonzales making him the linear champ.
So why on earth was Jones regarded as the ring champ at light-heavy,then Tarver and eventually Hopkins?
It doesn't make sense........
Because when DM beat Hill, there was no Ring belt. Later on, when Ring started giving out belts, Jones was one of the only fighters who got one right off the bat because in 01, when they issued them, Jones had all 3 major ABC titles (the WBO is just now getting this type of recognition) and was widely considered (rightly or wrongly) the best LHW in the world. DM only had the WBO.

DM's Lineal status was in question for a while and still isn't competely accepted, but most see him as the Lineal champion(Erdai now). The reason for this is the confusion over how you can become Lineal champion when the title is vacated.

Hill beat Maske in unification of the WBA and the IBF titles, and was a match between #1 and #2. If #1 and #2 are considered the way to create Lineage, then it was created there. If not, then unifying all 3 major titles (4 now perhaps, not sure) was the way to do it. If thats the case, Hill was NOT Lineal, and DM never unified the WBC title.

It's just complicated. Just keep in mind, the Lineal Champ and Ring champ are different.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesihavearm
Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.

Going on your way of judging it, it wouldnt just be Hopkins who wouldnt be Ring champ, people like Calzaghe etc.. wouldnt be either.
You have to beat the man who beat the man....Erdei did that,Jones not....pretty simple really.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
You have to beat the man who beat the man....Erdei did that,Jones not....pretty simple really.
Eh ? Says who ?

Under your reasoning, people like Manny Pac and Joe Calzaghe would not be the Ring champions.

Ring magazine belt was not around when DM was fighting, so it doesnt matter who was the linear champion or not. it was awarded to Jones because he was the best.

Can you call Erdei the best ? Laughable.

SIMPLE REALLY
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesihavearm
Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.

Going on your way of judging it, it wouldnt just be Hopkins who wouldnt be Ring champ, people like Calzaghe etc.. wouldnt be either.
Not really. I do see his point. Dm met the criteria for a ring belt and did not lose it in the ring so he should have always kept it. This would be true except that the ring stopped awarding belts in the 90's. They did not start again until 2002. DM gained and gave up his belts during the time when Ring was no longer awarding championships.

Roy Jones gained all (or most) of his belts prior to the ring begining to name champions again but he still held them in 2002 making him eligible for the belt.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesihavearm
Jones was the ring champion at LHW because he was the BEST LHW.

Tarver was then the ring champion because he was the BEST LHW.

Hopkins is now the ring champion because he is the BEST LHW.

Pretty simple really.
.
Probably Winky would be best LHW if he beat Hopkins, then Winky should fight DLH who would have aloso chance to become best LHW and then DLH should rematch Floyd. Gues whay Floyd fully deserve to be best LHW. Finally give a chance for Hatton and Cotto to be best LHW and do not forget about Manny. Any one of them fully deserve to have a great chnce to become best LHW.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

The best doesn't make you the linear champ,i agree with you that Jones'would smash Erdei into pieces but that does not make him linear.
Mayweather is much better then Baldomir but when he held the ibf title and Carlos the wbc title Carlos was the linear champ.
If Floyd would never have fought Carlos he would never have taken the ring title away from Carlos.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky gloves
Probably Winky would be best LHW if he beat Hopkins, then Winky should fight DLH who would have aloso chance to become best LHW and then DLH should rematch Floyd. Gues whay Floyd fully deserve to be best LHW. Finally give a chance for Hatton and Cotto to be best LHW and do not forget about Manny. Any one of them fully deserve to have a great chnce to become best LHW.
You know that scenario doesn't match the ones being played out.

And even so, that could be done with the Lineal title as well, so lets not make it out like there is a huge difference.

Wright could have beaten Erdai, and then the same scenario you proposed and imply taints the Ring title, would then apply to the Lineal title.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesihavearm
Eh ? Says who ?

Under your reasoning, people like Manny Pac and Joe Calzaghe would not be the Ring champions.

Ring magazine belt was not around when DM was fighting, so it doesnt matter who was the linear champion or not. it was awarded to Jones because he was the best.

Can you call Erdei the best ? Laughable.

SIMPLE REALLY
Simple is that the linear champion idea is beatifull. You want to
be linear champion you have to beat the guy who have this tiltle.
So untill someone beat Erdei he is rightfully deserving to be called champion.
.... what nobody beat him yet ... what a pity
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky gloves
Probably Winky would be best LHW if he beat Hopkins, then Winky should fight DLH who would have aloso chance to become best LHW and then DLH should rematch Floyd. Gues whay Floyd fully deserve to be best LHW. Finally give a chance for Hatton and Cotto to be best LHW and do not forget about Manny. Any one of them fully deserve to have a great chnce to become best LHW.
just
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
The best doesn't make you the linear champ
Lineal does not make you the ring champ
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg0208
You know that scenario doesn't match the ones being played out.

And even so, that could be done with the Lineal title as well, so lets not make it out like there is a huge difference.

Wright could have beaten Erdai, and then the same scenario you proposed and imply taints the Ring title, would then apply to the Lineal title.
Erdei is ABC beltholder and he cannot fight fighters who are not
approved by this aorganization. It means he cannot fight blown up Winky
Wright since Wright is not in the ranking of that organization.
I really doubt that anyone organziation would allowed Winky to
fight for the belt since he have no one fight at that weight class.

Assume Erdei get stripped from WBO belt by agrying to fight Winky.
If Winky win and stay at LHW then he become rightfull liner champion.
However if he do not fight other "rightfull" LHW contender then
he will probably lose "liner" title.

The Ring belt have no such restriction so if Hopkins wants rematch
with DLH then he can have one claiming its for the Ring belt.


Liner title is more like a core title within weight class.
Ring belt is more like "popularity" contest.
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