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Old 09-18-2007, 08:11 PM   #16
kg0208
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky gloves
Erdei is ABC beltholder and he cannot fight fighters who are not
approved by this aorganization. It means he cannot fight blown up Winky
Wright since Wright is not in the ranking of that organization.
I really doubt that anyone organziation would allowed Winky to
fight for the belt since he have no one fight at that weight class.

Assume Erdei get strpped from WBO belt by agrying to fight Winky.
If Winky win and stay at LHW then he become rightfull liner champion.
However if he do not fight other "rightfull" LHW contender then
he will probably lose "liner" title.

The Ring belt have no such restriction so if Hopkins wants rematch
with DLH then he can have one claiming its for the Ring belt.


Liner title is more like a core title within weight class.
Ring belt is more like "popularity" contest.
Your scenario is wrong. If Erdai was stripped and fought Wright anyways and Winky won. He is the Lineal champ.

If Winky then fights nothing but blown up MW, he is still Lineal. You cannot be stripped of the Lineal title.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by Jack Presscot
Who is the promoter of Hopkins? Who bought the RING belt? All 4 belts need to be unified first.
All 4 belts has nothing to do with Ring's policy.

It's #1 vs #2 or #3 under special circumstances, regardless of ABC titles.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by kg0208
Your scenario is wrong. If Erdai was stripped and fought Wright anyways and Winky won. He is the Lineal champ.

If Winky then fights nothing but blown up MW, he is still Lineal. You cannot be stripped of the Lineal title.
I think you may if you retire or do not longer fight within this weight class.
The important questions is who designate initially "linear" champion and
who may decide that "linear" champion is vacant?

Assume DLH blow up to 175 lb and fight either Hopkins (ring champion)
or Wright (who hipothetically won linear belt from Erdei).
Will you consider DLH equally to be rightfull Ring LHW champion
and rightfull linear LHW champion?

I think Ring title is more like p4p title, you do not need be within this class to become Ring champion.
While you have to be legitimate contender at this class to be "linear" champion.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by Stinky gloves
I think you may if you retire or do not longer fight within this weight class.
The important questions is who designate initially "linear" champion and
who may decide that "linear" champion is vacant?

Assume DLH blow up to 175 lb and fight either Hopkins (ring champion)
or Wright (who hipothetically won linear belt from Erdei).
Will you consider DLH equally to be rightfull Ring LHW champion
and rightfull linear LHW champion?

I think Ring title is more like p4p title, you do not need be within this class to become Ring champion.
While you have to be legitimate contender at this class to be "linear" champion.
You are confusing some rules. You don't have to be a legit contender in ANY class to win the Lineal title. If you beat the Lineal champion, jumping up 2 weight classes to do it, you will be Lineal champion.

If Jones had jumped up and miraculously beaten Lewis and not Ruiz, he would have been Lineal. Same thing with Ring. Both titles are won and lost in the ring, and you can lose it by retiring or vacating the class.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by kg0208
You are confusing some rules. You don't have to be a legit contender in ANY class to win the Lineal title. If you beat the Lineal champion, jumping up 2 weight classes to do it, you will be Lineal champion.

If Jones had jumped up and miraculously beaten Lewis and not Ruiz, he would have been Lineal. Same thing with Ring. Both titles are won and lost in the ring, and you can lose it by retiring or vacating the class.
But the question is would Tarver be liner HW champion if he beat Jones (after he miraculously beaten Lewis)
and Hopkins would be currently linear HW champion while never fought any one HW contender?

.... or maybe Jones would be automatically stripped from linear HW title for fighting Tarver?
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by David B
Hopkins beat Tarver who beat Jones,but Jones was never the lineal champ.Erdei is the real lineal champ,he beat Gonzales who beat Dariusz M. who beat Virgill Hill.Since there was no linear light-heavy champ Dariusz M. unified the WBA,IBF and WBO titles by beating Hill and automatically became the linear champ.He then vacated the wba and ibf titles but still became the man to beat.Eventually Gonzales defeated Dariusz M. and Erdei defeated Gonzales making him the linear champ.
So why on earth was Jones regarded as the ring champ at light-heavy,then Tarver and eventually Hopkins?
It doesn't make sense........
Because Ring magazine never gave out titles back when Hill fought Maske (#1 facing the #2 in the division to crown new linear/Ring champion).
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by Stinky gloves
But the question is would Tarver be liner HW champion if he beat Jones (after he miraculously beaten Lewis)
and Hopkins would be currently linear HW champion while never fought any one HW contender?

.... or maybe Jones would be automatically stripped from linear HW title for fighting Tarver?
Yes Tarver would be Lineal in that scenario. And If Hopkins then beat him, without ever facing a HW contender, he would be Lineal as well.

You can't be stripped of Lineal titles.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Nigel Collins has actually said that if The Ring belt was in place in the late 90s, that Michalczewski would have been LHW champ.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

The longer the discussion, the more and more I say piss on LINEAL

Quite honestly, it doesnt represent THE TOP FIGHTER. It could be one and the same, but then that's UNIFIED Wish Boxing was run right

Fighters concerned with lasting legacies should beat every "champ" they can and let history sort it out

Erdei aint the ebst LHW without beating the other champs and PBF aint the best WW without beating the other champs, IMO.

Lineal, smineal, whatever
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by C Money
The longer the discussion, the more and more I say piss on LINEAL

Quite honestly, it doesnt represent THE TOP FIGHTER. It could be one and the same, but then that's UNIFIED Wish Boxing was run right

Fighters concerned with lasting legacies should beat every "champ" they can and let history sort it out

Erdei aint the ebst LHW without beating the other champs and PBF aint the best WW without beating the other champs, IMO.

Lineal, smineal, whatever
Ummm...you do realize that if Baldomir had paid his sanctioning fees, there would be two fewer "champions" at 147, right? If Team Baldomir had come up with enough cash to pick up the other belts and Mayweather had three titles right now, are you honestly telling me you wouldn't still be here trashing him every day?

Also, I remember quite clearly that if it weren't for political nonsense behind the scenes, Johnson and Tarver would have unified most of the LHW belts in their first fight. How do you reconcile the fact that the sanctioning bodies themselves often prevent unification with your stance that lineal titles don't matter?
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

IMO both arguments have been ruined. Unification is diluted because of the stripping of champions leading to champions who are clearly not as good as some of the contenders. Lineal can't be stripped, but when someone beats an aging champion, then fights nobodies thereafter, the other champions (belt holders) end up being better than the Lineal champion.

We argue this all the time, but we are only arguing a problem which probably has little solution unless the sanctioning bodies step up and change things.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg0208
IMO both arguments have been ruined. Unification is diluted because of the stripping of champions leading to champions who are clearly not as good as some of the contenders. Lineal can't be stripped, but when someone beats an aging champion, then fights nobodies thereafter, the other champions (belt holders) end up being better than the Lineal champion.

We argue this all the time, but we are only arguing a problem which probably has little solution unless the sanctioning bodies step up and change things.
KG I comprehend where you're coming from but even if the Org strips the fighter? A wins a win and to the fan?? ITS OBVIOUS!!!

Let the orgs keep pulling that shit, they'll flush themselves completly down the toilet

Beat the best, and all the "champions", if you wanna be the man!!
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
Ummm...you do realize that if Baldomir had paid his sanctioning fees, there would be two fewer "champions" at 147, right? If Team Baldomir had come up with enough cash to pick up the other belts and Mayweather had three titles right now, are you honestly telling me you wouldn't still be here trashing him every day?

Also, I remember quite clearly that if it weren't for political nonsense behind the scenes, Johnson and Tarver would have unified most of the LHW belts in their first fight. How do you reconcile the fact that the sanctioning bodies themselves often prevent unification with your stance that lineal titles don't matter?
Uhmm, if it wasnt for public pressure to capture the "lineal" belt? Floyd wouldnt have fought BALDO at all. You might remember he announced Spinks at 54 and then caved under the outcry.

Also? Arum/Margarito drove the $$$ up for Floyd's liking vs Baldo.

If's, could'ves, would'ves, should'ves, still WASNT.

Theres far too much BS with all of it and thats no doubt. That's why, they should beat the "champs" and bot worry about the games.

You cant take away fair victory
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Money
KG I comprehend where you're coming from but even if the Org strips the fighter? A wins a win and to the fan?? ITS OBVIOUS!!!

Let the orgs keep pulling that shit, they'll flush themselves completly down the toilet

Beat the best, and all the "champions", if you wanna be the man!!
That makes no sense whatsoever. Your previous contention was that the belts are what matter. If the sanction bodies keep arbitrarily stripping fighters (in some cases for taking real fights instead of their bogus mandatories), then, by your standard, there will almost never be an established #1. Even if the major titles are unified, the WBA runs their sanctioning fee scam by creating another "world champion" in the same weight class. Your argument is shit.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C Money
Uhmm, if it wasnt for public pressure to capture the "lineal" belt? Floyd wouldnt have fought BALDO at all. You might remember he announced Spinks at 54 and then caved under the outcry.

Also? Arum/Margarito drove the $$$ up for Floyd's liking vs Baldo.

If's, could'ves, would'ves, should'ves, still WASNT.

Theres far too much BS with all of it and thats no doubt. That's why, they should beat the "champs" and bot worry about the games.

You cant take away fair victory


I don't take anything away from anyone. I respect Baldomir's victory over Judah and Mayweather's victory over Baldomir. You're the one who's claiming that Mayweather hasn't accomplished anything because he hasn't faced any of the other "champions" at 147 who all picked up their titles while the were vacant. You completely failed to address my question about whether or you would respect Mayweather more if Baldo had paid the sanction fees and brought three titles to their fight or my question about the notion of holding unification as the only standard to determine a real champion when the sanction bodies themselves often do not want their titles unified.

Also, what "public pressure" are you talking about? Sure, there were a few idiots who tried to claim Floyd was "ducking" Baldomir when the Spinks fight was on the table, but most people who didn't like the fight were still complaining about him not facing Margarito even after the Baldomir fight was signed. As soon as the Baldo fight was signed, there were people who started to bitch about Mayweather "ducking" Spinks. That wasn't public pressure. It was just a bunch rambling nonsense form the people who grasp at straws for reasons to attack Mayweather.
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