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Old 09-20-2007, 07:07 PM   #31
sues2nd
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by David B
You have to beat the man who beat the man....Erdei did that,Jones not....pretty simple really.
Sorry to say dude...but Jones was the man at LHW before losing to Tarver....therefore, Erdei didnt beat the man.

Pretty simple really.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by Thom
That makes no sense whatsoever. Your previous contention was that the belts are what matter. If the sanction bodies keep arbitrarily stripping fighters (in some cases for taking real fights instead of their bogus mandatories), then, by your standard, there will almost never be an established #1. Even if the major titles are unified, the WBA runs their sanctioning fee scam by creating another "world champion" in the same weight class. Your argument is shit.
What the hell are you talking about??

Did you read or are you just spitting what you think??

Yes, Unification would and has worked previously, a la , Hopkins, Lewis, Tszyu, etc, etc. Yet that didnt sit well with orgs today and in fact they are actually double stacking Champs in some cases as another way around it without stripping said fighters as you pointed out. Tell me that you accept V Hill as world champ over Mormeck as unified champ at CW?? If you do?? Case closed, go on about you're merry way. Do you need an org to tell you this????

Lets say PBF beats Hatton and goes to fight the Winner of SSM vs Cotto but the BC stripped him (hypothetical), you mean to tell me that you still wouldnt respect the winner as Champ??? In my mind that winner should the fight P Williams, go ahead let the org strip, **** THEM. Who would they really be fooling??

Lineal?? just as full of shit because it doesnt necessarily mean you are the best, i.e. Erdei. Beat Hopkins, Dawson, etc and then you are the best.


Either you misunderstood my point/argument or go ahead with ya blind self and keep getting fleeced by BS.

All of this WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT THE RING CHAMP WAS SOLVING. Has it? Will it continue?? You're guess is as good as mine, but victories over the top guys are everlasting
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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I don't take anything away from anyone. I respect Baldomir's victory over Judah and Mayweather's victory over Baldomir. You're the one who's claiming that Mayweather hasn't accomplished anything because he hasn't faced any of the other "champions" at 147 who all picked up their titles while the were vacant. You completely failed to address my question about whether or you would respect Mayweather more if Baldo had paid the sanction fees and brought three titles to their fight or my question about the notion of holding unification as the only standard to determine a real champion when the sanction bodies themselves often do not want their titles unified.

Also, what "public pressure" are you talking about? Sure, there were a few idiots who tried to claim Floyd was "ducking" Baldomir when the Spinks fight was on the table, but most people who didn't like the fight were still complaining about him not facing Margarito even after the Baldomir fight was signed. As soon as the Baldo fight was signed, there were people who started to bitch about Mayweather "ducking" Spinks. That wasn't public pressure. It was just a bunch rambling nonsense form the people who grasp at straws for reasons to attack Mayweather.
I would have still called for PBF to beat the other Champions, its called DEFENDING THE TITLE. Its what most great Champs do. I. E. BEAT THE BEST!!!!! It doesnt stop with gee I won the belt.

The public pressure to which Floyd caved too Defend him all ya like, even the most ardent supporters started swinging the other way when it appeared he wouldnt fight Baldo. Only the truely biased, nuthuggers felt it would have been OK.

Tell Me Baldo and Judah are better than SSM, Cotto, and Williams.

Then tell me about a shit argument
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
Sorry to say dude...but Jones was the man at LHW before losing to Tarver....therefore, Erdei didnt beat the man.

Pretty simple really.
Even "if" he was( ) Could he have stayed the man by not facing Jones, Tarver, Hopkins, etc??

I know you know the answer, I'm just hoping others get it.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by C Money
Even "if" he was( ) Could he have stayed the man by not facing Jones, Tarver, Hopkins, etc??

I know you know the answer, I'm just hoping others get it.
Who was? Jones? Of course he was the number one LHW....is anyone REALLY arguing that?

I think I am a little confused....
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
Who was? Jones? Of course he was the number one LHW....is anyone REALLY arguing that?

I think I am a little confused....
Not too many people argued that Roy wasn't the best light heavyweight.

However, linear is another story. You can definitely make the claim for Michalczewski became linear champ when he beat Hill.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
Who was? Jones? Of course he was the number one LHW....is anyone REALLY arguing that?

I think I am a little confused....
I know Jones was but what I was saying is even if he "wasnt" and Erdei was, could Erdei have stayed that way by not fighting/ducking the best opposition i.e, Jones Tarver, Hopkins etc.??

ANSWER=NO!!!!!

That's why I said I KNOW YOU KNOW, I was hoping others would catch the drift.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:23 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by Erratic Behavior
Not too many people argued that Roy wasn't the best light heavyweight.

However, linear is another story. You can definitely make the claim for Michalczewski became linear champ when he beat Hill.
Seriously tho, if we are talking the ring champion (like the original poster brought up), then of course its Hop. It was Jones, then Tarver took it, then Hopkins.

If we are going by beating the man (as the original poster also claimed), then it also lends credance to the Hopkins deserving that honor as well.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:25 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by C Money
I know Jones was but what I was saying is even if he "wasnt" and Erdei was, could Erdei have stayed that way by not fighting/ducking the best opposition i.e, Jones Tarver, Hopkins etc.??

ANSWER=NO!!!!!

That's why I said I KNOW YOU KNOW, I was hoping others would catch the drift.
Yeah....I get confused easily......ooooh my pizza is here......

Ummm, what were we talking about again?



Kidding...and agreeing.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:26 PM   #40
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by sues2nd
Seriously tho, if we are talking the ring champion (like the original poster brought up), then of course its Hop. It was Jones, then Tarver took it, then Hopkins.

If we are going by beating the man (as the original poster also claimed), then it also lends credance to the Hopkins deserving that honor as well.
Yeah, but the question of the topic is why didn't The Ring doesn't call Erdei the champ.

It goes back to the whole RJJ/Darius mess.

Nigel Collins even said that The Ring would've called DM the champ if the policy was around in the late 90s.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by Erratic Behavior
Not too many people argued that Roy wasn't the best light heavyweight.

However, linear is another story. You can definitely make the claim for Michalczewski became linear champ when he beat Hill.
Thats precisely my point about Lineal meaning no more than anything else in itself!!!

Ok Erdei was lineal, was he the best?? NO. Could he still call himslef the best right now?? NO.

WTF does lineal mean?? In some cases, NADA. In other's like where Hopkins had UNIFIED and Taylor beat him?? Yes it meant Taylor was the best. Has Taylor defended against the best? YES. DOes he still have all the belts?? NO. Does not having them all mean shit in that case?? Absolutely not

Fight the best, beat the best, **** the orgs, lineal, and let victories be you're guide. Hopefully?? Ring will have picked up on that and continues too.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:57 PM   #42
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by C Money
KG I comprehend where you're coming from but even if the Org strips the fighter? A wins a win and to the fan?? ITS OBVIOUS!!!

Let the orgs keep pulling that shit, they'll flush themselves completly down the toilet

Beat the best, and all the "champions", if you wanna be the man!!
Well therein lies the problem, as the best of the best won't be champions if they get stripped.

Unfortunately, the sanctioning bodies have gotten away with this for years, and as long as the fighters think the belts are important, they will continue to get away with it. Remember, we have gotten MORE ABC belts, not less, the worse they have gotten.

It's all a complicated mess.....being the one true champion is now more a matter of opinion. It may be the unified champion, the Ring Champion, the Lineal champion, the ESB champion...ok, not the last one

Either way, we are now getting better fights (so far) but still not the unifications we desire or true champion in each weight class.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by kg0208
Well therein lies the problem, as the best of the best won't be champions if they get stripped.

Unfortunately, the sanctioning bodies have gotten away with this for years, and as long as the fighters think the belts are important, they will continue to get away with it. Remember, we have gotten MORE ABC belts, not less, the worse they have gotten.

It's all a complicated mess.....being the one true champion is now more a matter of opinion. It may be the unified champion, the Ring Champion, the Lineal champion, the ESB champion...ok, not the last one

Either way, we are now getting better fights (so far) but still not the unifications we desire or true champion in each weight class.
Perhaps my "intensity" on this issue clouds things for some, not necessarily you. Please keep in mind I view this as a boxing issue not a "Floyd" issue.

When you say they are stripped and then not "champions", I SAY BS!!!
If, say Wladimir Klitschko were "stripped" for intending to face Chagaev or the Ibragimov vs Holfield winner?? THAT WOULD BE BS!!!
The winner of that "unifying" event is still the Champion, **** the org that stripped him.

I think the Hopkins Ring Champ example is perfect. He beat the man, who beat the man. Erdei is lineal but that and $3 will get him coffee at Starbucks.

I respect you and many other fans on this site and after all we've(you and I especially) been through around these issues?? I think that the results of those debates have pretty much destroyed both Org BS and Lineal. I hope that the ESB rankings and members judge to the proper standard and have faith they will.

For those that cant get past my views of PBF? I'll say it AGAIN, I dont have to like him to respect what he accomplishes in the ring. I seek the same standard for him as everyone else, FIGHT AND BEAT THE BEST!! Thats what the greatest of this sport have always DONE! Dont make excuses and hide behind shit, aint nothin 2 but to do it

Last edited by Flatlander; 06-27-2006 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:14 PM   #44
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by C Money
Perhaps my "intensity" on this issue clouds things for some, not necessarily you. Please keep in mind I view this as a boxing issue not a "Floyd" issue.

When you say they are stripped and then not "champions", I SAY BS!!!
If, say Wladimir Klitschko were "stripped" for intending to face Chagaev or the Ibragimov vs Holfield winner?? THAT WOULD BE BS!!!
The winner of that "unifying" event is still the Champion, **** the org that stripped him.

I think the Hopkins Ring Champ example is perfect. He beat the man, who beat the man. Erdei is lineal but that and $3 will get him coffee at Starbucks.

I respect you and many other fans on this site and after all we've(you and I especially) been through around these issues?? I think that the results of those debates have pretty much destroyed both Org BS and Lineal. I hope that the ESB rankings and members judge to the proper standard and have faith they will.

For those that cant get past my views of PBF? I'll say it AGAIN, I dont have to like him to respect what he accomplishes in the ring. I seek the same standard for him as everyone else, FIGHT AND BEAT THE BEST!! Thats what the greatest of this sport have always DONE! Dont make excuses and hide behind shit, aint nothin 2 but to do it
I am not saying that Wlad wouldn't be champion in that scenario. And notice I refrained from mentioning PBF as this issue goes deeper than one champion. Your view is a little intense on PBF, but I think you run into barriers because while you say you also respect PBF, you rarely mention it and not nearly as much as you criticize him. Perhaps there is more to criticize than respect in your eyes, but I would assume that is an issue when you speak to his fans and therefore makes them think your judgement is clouded concerning him. I am not his fan, so it makes no difference to me.

I don't think unification or Lineal is the answer. Yes, stripping Wlad would not make him less of a champion. But what of the NEW champion that gets Wlad's belt? Is he a champion? When do we stop counting the new champion as a real champion and therefore there is no need to unify his title? At some point, that new champion who won his title vacant shouldn't be looked at as a champion, otherwise there will always be another belt to unify.

Once someone unifies all the belts, they are the unified champion. So if he is stripped of 3 of the belts, he remains champion, but new champions pop up. Now what becomes of the man who beats the man who unified all the belts before they were stripped?
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:49 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why is Hopkins the ring champ at light-heavy and not Erdei?

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Originally Posted by C Money
The longer the discussion, the more and more I say piss on LINEAL

Quite honestly, it doesnt represent THE TOP FIGHTER. It could be one and the same, but then that's UNIFIED Wish Boxing was run right

Fighters concerned with lasting legacies should beat every "champ" they can and let history sort it out

Erdei aint the ebst LHW without beating the other champs and PBF aint the best WW without beating the other champs, IMO.

Lineal, smineal, whatever
Good post, I agree that guys like Erdei and--to a far lesser extent--PBF, need to step up against the big threats in their respective divisions.
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