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Old 10-07-2009, 02:37 PM   #31
PetethePrince
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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Originally Posted by Quitali Bitchko View Post
Well Tyson fought the number 2 ranked man in the world, Ruddock (who Foreman avoided btw) twice and then went to jail so I dont see an issue here. Before Ruddock he fought Stewart who was number 4 ranked I belive (but I could be wrong by a place or two) - who got robbed silly againts Foreman not so long after (and was giving Holyfield a run for his money not so long before) he was destroyed by Tyson.
But your right, Foreman was a high risk sort of fight, but not beacuse Tyson could lose but beacuse he would gain NOTHING by winning.
I think Tyson gains more fighting Ruddock and then Foreman rather than fighting Ruddock twice. Ring Magazine ranked Ruddock #4 in 1990, while Foreman was #6. Fighting Ruddock once shouldn't been fine when having not been champion. Obviously the prison ordeal doesn't help - doesn't change the fact that Tyson probably wanted nothing to do with Foreman. Apparently, Don King proposed the fight but Tyson responded "What are you nuts. Why don't you fight him."

So, I do think a duck is harsh. But I do think Tyson intentionally avoided from. It's not like he was warranted in a fight, and it's not like fighting someone else on your way back up is any worse. Tyson was doing what he had to do to get a shot. While having the belt, Foreman wasn't deserving but I don't see Tyson giving him a shot in the future when he's becoming more deserving. Tyson fought Foreman would've been huge and big business even in the late 80's - in the early 90's it could have been big too. The thing is, I'm sure Foreman would much rather have fought Holyfield in 91 than Tyson in 91... so it just worked out that way.

A superfight almost went down in the mid-90's but it didn't pan out.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

Besides putting up a decent showing and losing effort to Evander Holyfield, what did Foreman do to make him such a force in his second comeback?? He was completely outboxed by Morrison for crying out loud. Moorer who is almost as slow as Foreman also boxed his ears off for 10 rounds. Axel shultz beat him too. Why would Tyson be scared of Foreman? Tyson was a super fast fighter and he would have really hurt old George.
George was always a money hungry guy but the truth of the matter is George wanted no part of boxing, let alone Tyson, once his grill took off. Tyson didnt need Foreman, and after Holyfield beat him, it only diminished his stock further.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:09 PM   #33
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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Besides putting up a decent showing and losing effort to Evander Holyfield, what did Foreman do to make him such a force in his second comeback?? He was completely outboxed by Morrison for crying out loud. Moorer who is almost as slow as Foreman also boxed his ears off for 10 rounds. Axel shultz beat him too. Why would Tyson be scared of Foreman? Tyson was a super fast fighter and he would have really hurt old George.
George was always a money hungry guy but the truth of the matter is George wanted no part of boxing, let alone Tyson, once his grill took off. Tyson didnt need Foreman, and after Holyfield beat him, it only diminished his stock further.
His grill took off around 1997.

Truth is, once Foreman was champion he wanted to have a superfight with Tyson. Tyson wanted no part and signed a fight contract that really had him fighting nobodies. Foreman constantly tried fighting Tyson in a big fight when he was a belt-holder, but Tyson didn't want to have any of that.

In the late 80's/early 90's a 20 million dollar fight was offered in a George vs Tyson fight. Tyson would have had every reason to want to fight George if he thought he could really beat him. Of course, Tyson didn't like the risk but the money was there. He avoided Foreman, no doubt.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:18 PM   #34
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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His grill took off around 1997.

Truth is, once Foreman was champion he wanted to have a superfight with Tyson. Tyson wanted no part and signed a fight contract that really had him fighting nobodies. Foreman constantly tried fighting Tyson in a big fight when he was a belt-holder, but Tyson didn't want to have any of that.

In the late 80's/early 90's a 20 million dollar fight was offered in a George vs Tyson fight. Tyson would have had every reason to want to fight George if he thought he could really beat him. Of course, Tyson didn't like the risk but the money was there. He avoided Foreman, no doubt.
i dont believe that at all. In fact I remember reading a magazine on the whole issue and alot of it had to do with Arum who is a notorious shit talker, and King, who never could work together.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:20 PM   #35
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

Pete Foreman wasnt deserving of a title shot vs Tyson? Alot of the stiffs Foreman fought Tyson fought as well. People like David Jaco, Rocky Sekorski, Mark Young and Mike Jamison. But Foreman wasnt deserving? Its not like Tyson was fighting hall of fame class fighters either.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared shit less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fight in' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news.

It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds. Tyson just has nothing to beat Foreman with; his edge in hand speed would have been a non-factor. He can't beat him by backing away, and he would have gotten his head handed to him if he brought the fight to Foreman. In addition, Foreman was bigger, stronger, tougher and hit harder. Not to mention the fact that Foreman had a better chin and no fear or doubt, unlike Tyson, who was full of fear and self-doubt.

Think about it, Foreman-Tyson was the biggest fight that could have been made in 1990. Foreman was perceived to be an easy fight for Tyson, and it would have been his biggest payday to date. There can only be one reason why Tyson didn't fight Foreman, and that's because he feared losing to him.

I haven't a morsel of a doubt that Tyson just doesn't match up with Foreman, and he knows it. If Tyson of 1990 was afraid of an old Foreman, think how petrified he would of been of a prime Foreman, the one who stared down both Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali in 1973 and 1974.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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Yep Foreman had the worse stamina in boxing history because he got tired against Ali. Yep getting tired 2 times in 81 fights proves Foreman had the worse stamina in the history for pro sports. Could you people think of something new to say. Foreman went 10rounds with the slick Gregorio Peralta 2 times and Peralta is far superior than the fat joke Buster Douglas. Good freaking grief.
In the late rounds with Peralta George was exhausted & throwing wild looping punches. Against Ron Lyle, Foreman almost fell over due to exhaustion rather than being hurt by Lyle & scored the big knockout punches in the fifth. Plus stamina cost George dearly as he tired & lost the fight against Jimmy Young. In his earlier part of his career Foreman was a free swinger & it took a tremendous amout of energy from him.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

Lefthook another Tyson fanboy, Tyson struggled against James Tillis, Buster Doulgas knocked him out, Evander Holyfield knocked him out. Michael Moorer was a better boxing and a harder puncher than either Douglas or James Tillis so try again. Michael Moorer could also box moving backwards which is something Tyson could do.

When Foreman fought Alex Schulz he was 46 or 47, Yeah we all know how a 47 year old Tyson would of knocked Schulz out in 1 right? Wrong. If Tyson would of fought the same people Foreman fought from the age 38 to 48 he would of been knocked out so many damn times. Stop trying to compare a fat slow 40 year old Foreman to the prime one.

The sad thing is Tyson was afraid of the fat, slow, weaker punching, old Foreman.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:26 PM   #38
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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His grill took off around 1997.

Truth is, once Foreman was champion he wanted to have a superfight with Tyson. Tyson wanted no part and signed a fight contract that really had him fighting nobodies. Foreman constantly tried fighting Tyson in a big fight when he was a belt-holder, but Tyson didn't want to have any of that.

In the late 80's/early 90's a 20 million dollar fight was offered in a George vs Tyson fight. Tyson would have had every reason to want to fight George if he thought he could really beat him. Of course, Tyson didn't like the risk but the money was there. He avoided Foreman, no doubt.
Really the fight could have only occured on two separate occasions. Foreman fought on the undercard of a Tyson fight (Tillman I believe), and was considered for Tyson, but Tyson wanted the titles back first. Holyfield wound up getting to Foreman first. Foreman than won the title from Moorer and thats when a fight with Tyson was being discussed. Thats when all that crap with Arum was going on. Foreman looked bad against Shultz and then was stripped for not fighting him in a rematch. Shultz lost to Botha who then was stripped for roids and eventually lost to Moorer. Moorer beat Botha on the undercard of Holy I believe with the winner to face supposedly Tyson. If Foreman had still had the title he would have gotten his shot against Tyson, but Foreman being promoted by Arum would have never gotten a shot at Tyson unless he had a title.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:29 PM   #39
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

Foreman got tired in the Young fight because he didnt come to Puerto Rico 3 weeks like Gil Clancy told him so his body wasnt used to the heat. He came 1 day before the fight. Foreman was inactive for about 18 months before he fought Ron Lyle. And in both Peralta fights Foreman was still going for the kill in the 10th round of their fight.

Are you telling me that you never seen Lennox Lewis huffing and puffing before after a few rounds? Are you telling me Wlad Klitschko didnt fall over from fatigue against Lamon Brewser a nobody? Tyson wasn't huffing and puffing against Buster Douglas? But if Foreman gets tired its the end of the world. Every power punching heavyweight gets tired if they throw power punches for 8 plus rounds.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

To be fair in my opinion, I'm sitting here trying to think of a way Mike Tyson could beat George Foreman. I just can't picture it. I'm going with George in this matchup!
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:38 PM   #41
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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Lefthook another Tyson fanboy, Tyson struggled against James Tillis, Buster Doulgas knocked him out, Evander Holyfield knocked him out. Michael Moorer was a better boxing and a harder puncher than either Douglas or James Tillis so try again. Michael Moorer could also box moving backwards which is something Tyson could do.

When Foreman fought Alex Schulz he was 46 or 47, Yeah we all know how a 47 year old Tyson would of knocked Schulz out in 1 right? Wrong. If Tyson would of fought the same people Foreman fought from the age 38 to 48 he would of been knocked out so many damn times. Stop trying to compare a fat slow 40 year old Foreman to the prime one.

The sad thing is Tyson was afraid of the fat, slow, weaker punching, old Foreman.
Im not comparing anything, but reality was he wasnt on the elite level of boxing during his comeback. Politics and promoters kept Foreman and Tyson from fighting each other far more than some theory that Tyson was scared of him. Holmes was a heck of a lot better in his comeback than Foreman ever was and Tyson destroyed him. Tyson fought Tillis in his 18th or 19th fight long before he even won the title, and beat him by UD. I dont know what fights your watching, but Moorer was not the greatest boxing heavyweight either, and really Tyson lost to Douglas in what 45 fights? Of course it was against a bunch of bums right?
Like I said he made a good showing against Holyfield, but he was outboxed, just like he was outboxed by Shultz, Morrison and Moorer (for most of the fight).
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

LeftHook well since you are on ignore I cant see your post unless somebody else post it. Who in the hell did Tyson ever beat to become a force? Trevor Berbick, Tony Tucker, a washed up Larry Holmes? Yeah Tyson was knocking out world class fighters like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Tua right? Tyson never beat a hall of famer who was still in their prime

Tommy Morrison out boxed Foreman? No he ran from Foreman, but do you think being beat by Morrison is worse than being knocked out by Buster Douglas? Tommy Morrison was far superior to Buster in every way you could name. Michael Moorer was the 2 time heavyweight champion of the world and he could actually beat Holyfield. He didnt have to bite on his ear to get DQ to avoid being knocked out.

Pierre Coetzer was a tough as nails fight who fought picked apart. Lou Savarase the one Foreman fought ( Not the washed up one Tyson fought) Was a solid fighter, Bert Cooper was really dangerous early on. Shannon Briggs has fast hand and great power, his main weakness is stamina. Axel Shulz was a awkward boxer and pretty durable in his prime. Adilson Rodriguez was in the top 10 when Foreman beat him. Alex Stewart was dangerous if the fight manage to go a while ( Alex looked like he took a dive against Tyson) . Gerry Cooney was still dangerous and was better than alot of the cannon fodder Tyson fought against. Dwiight Qawi was past his prime but he was no worse than a James Tillis.

Then as I said already, numerous guys Tyson fought Foreman fought, The only thing was Foreman was past his prime and on the comeback trail and Tyson was in his prime fighting those same fighters. If you going to put down Foreman for his level of opponents then Tyson deserves to be put down just as much if not more for his.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:46 PM   #43
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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To be fair in my opinion, I'm sitting here trying to think of a way Mike Tyson could beat George Foreman. I just can't picture it. I'm going with George in this matchup!
.
People seem to forget how fast Tyson really was. It most likely would have gone down similar to the Bruno fight where Foreman would get pummeled on the ropes and the ref would have stepped in. I could see Tyson coming up the middle with a vicious uppercut and really hurting Foreman. Remember when Holyfield was bouncing ten punch combinations off of George? Picture Tyson doing the same thing. George was just too slow.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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LeftHook well since you are on ignore I cant see your post unless somebody else post it. Who in the hell did Tyson ever beat to become a force? Trevor Berbick, Tony Tucker, a washed up Larry Holmes? Yeah Tyson was knocking out world class fighters like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Tua right? Tyson never beat a hall of famer who was still in their prime

Tommy Morrison out boxed Foreman? No he ran from Foreman, but do you think being beat by Morrison is worse than being knocked out by Buster Douglas? Tommy Morrison was far superior to Buster in every way you could name. Michael Moorer was the 2 time heavyweight champion of the world and he could actually beat Holyfield. He didnt have to bite on his ear to get DQ to avoid being knocked out.

Pierre Coetzer was a tough as nails fight who fought picked apart. Lou Savarase the one Foreman fought ( Not the washed up one Tyson fought) Was a solid fighter, Bert Cooper was really dangerous early on. Shannon Briggs has fast hand and great power, his main weakness is stamina. Axel Shulz was a awkward boxer and pretty durable in his prime. Adilson Rodriguez was in the top 10 when Foreman beat him. Alex Stewart was dangerous if the fight manage to go a while ( Alex looked like he took a dive against Tyson) . Gerry Cooney was still dangerous and was better than alot of the cannon fodder Tyson fought against. Dwiight Qawi was past his prime but he was no worse than a James Tillis.

Then as I said already, numerous guys Tyson fought Foreman fought, The only thing was Foreman was past his prime and on the comeback trail and Tyson was in his prime fighting those same fighters. If you going to put down Foreman for his level of opponents then Tyson deserves to be put down just as much if not more for his.
Keep me on ignore. Your rambles are too ridiculous to respond to.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: The George Foreman who lost to Ali vs the Mike Tyson who lost to Buster Dougals

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i dont believe that at all. In fact I remember reading a magazine on the whole issue and alot of it had to do with Arum who is a notorious shit talker, and King, who never could work together.
What don't you believe.

The superfight was notoriously talked about even after the Schultz fight. Foreman talked about the fight in the late 80's and how the money was there with a 20 million dollar offer. Everyone can talk about deserving or worth it. The fight could have happened. Foreman before and during his championship reign because the money and excitement was there.
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