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Old 09-13-2007, 04:40 PM   #1
China_hand_Joe
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Default Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Despite the fact he fought in the 40s, an undoubtably weaker era (it would be practically impossible to match his numbers today against the better athletes).



Well here is something to think about and agree with:

We can name Sugar Ray Robinson the best, the greatest ever. We can overlook the fact he fought in the 40s. It wasn't his fault everyone else was so bad, it just was, but we overlook it...

Why can't we overlook the fact that Joe Calzaghe has few worthy elite challengers? It is almost exactly the same, both have built up terrific number against less than stella opponents. It is double standards if we overlook it in the case of Robinson, but are ultra critical about Calzaghe for it.

It wasn't Robinson's fault the opponents back then were unworthy. Just as it isn't Joe Calzaghe's fault he has no truly worthy challengers. We should overlook these unfortunalities in Joe's career, just as we do for Sugar Ray.

We should be able to place Calzaghe amongst the top ten ever, immune to critism of his resume, just as Robinson fans are can do. There is no difference when you compare their respective opponents head to head, arguably Joe with his 'zero' against solid modern opposition comes out on top.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

This was actually meant for the General forum, so as to avoid mobbing tactics and deterioration into the old vs new 'debate'.

This is about the double standards applied against Joe Calzaghe and putting them into perspective. So this infact is not a classic boxing related thread at all.
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Old 09-13-2007, 04:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

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Old 09-13-2007, 04:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Joe Calzaghe is a great talent, but please don't compare him to Ray Robinson.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
Joe Calzaghe is a great talent, but please don't compare him to Ray Robinson.
Agreed. Calzaghe has a fair bit to go before being named anywhere near Hagler and Leonard, never mind Robinson.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Robinson never did something like say, what 15 years into his pro career before fighting ONE guy who held a world title at the time.

And this was in an era with less world titles out there.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic Behavior
Robinson never did something like say, what 15 years into his pro career before fighting ONE guy who held a world title at the time.

And this was in an era with less world titles out there.
Can you explain this? What are you trying to say?
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

To the thread starter, why were the 1940s a weak era?
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
To the thread starter, why were the 1940s a weak era?
Globalisation and advances in knowledge and also technology and communications.

Mayweather would similarly have been able to reach a ridiculous 150-1 recond back then - you cannot get away with fighting so frequently these days, not near the top level.

Why is Robinson let off for fighting in a weak era, but Calzaghe penalised for happening weight 168, an unheralded weight, with no elite names willing to square off with Joe?
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Robinson fought in what was arguably the strongest era in boxing history. Burley, Williams, LaMotta, Gavlin, Chase, Moore, Bivins, Kid Chocolate, Soose, Zivic, Charles, these men were monsters, absolute world class fighters without exception. Any one of these guys would bea multi-weight world champ were they fighting now, or anytime, if things were done fairly.

That Robinson didn't fight most of the guys i've named is another issue of course
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

How were the 1940s a weak era? Have you seen all of the names on Sugar Ray Robinson's resume?

Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Jake LaMotta
Sammy Angott
Fritzie Zivic
Carmen Basilio
Gene Fullmer
Randolph Turpin
Joey Maxim
Rocky Graziano
Rocky Castellani
Charley Fusari
Carl Bobo Olson
Joey Giardello
Maxie Shapiro
Jimmy Doyle
Tommy Bell
Jean Walzack

Come on China_hand....Robinson's competition was far superior to the Lacy, Eubank, Bika, Veit, and Ashira of Calzaghe's resume.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Nice list Brooklyn.

Add the guys Robinson missed out on and you're talking about the deepest WW/MW divisions of all time, in my opinion.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Nice list Brooklyn.

Add the guys Robinson missed out on and you're talking about the deepest WW/MW divisions of all time, in my opinion.
No question....clearly one of the great eras in boxing history. Without question, better than the current super middleweight division.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

I have no doubt I could land jabs on Sugar Ray Robinson with relative ease, whether I'd be punished after landing is another matter.

Anyhow, LaMotta was a one dimensionsal fighter, Lacy would likely beat him. There may be people under the impression LaMotta was more versatile, but that is only because Robinson's leaking defence allowed Jake to land his Baldomir like jab.

A prime focused Robin Reid is fully capable of beating any <170 name on Robinson's record.


It isn't Sugar Rays fault everyone else was so abysmal though, so lets not get on his back.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Quote:
Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
I have no doubt I could land jabs on Sugar Ray Robinson with relative ease

Anyhow, LaMotta was a one dimensionsal fighter, Lacy would likely beat him.

A prime focused Robin Reid is fully capable of beating any <170 name on Robinson's record.
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