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Old 09-22-2007, 08:24 AM   #31
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

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Originally Posted by Cojimar 1945
Tyson was considered a big puncher in his era but it doesen't seem inconcievable that some fighters might hit harder than him by a significant amount. Tubbs was knocked out in one round by Lionel Butler and Carl Williams was kayoed by Mike Weaver. Tyson knocking out these guys is nice but others could do similar.
Tyson was considered a huge puncher in his era. I find it difficult to fathom anyone hitting harder than him "by a significant amount. You mention Butler and Williams but what about the myriads of fighters Tyson sparked that had proven durability?
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

Athletes seem to be getting better and better as time passes. Tyson might look impressive compared to fighters from earlier eras but as more time passes I suspect we may see more heavyweights that surpass him in physical ability.

Without actually measuring the force of punches it is hard to know who hits hardest.

Last edited by cross_trainer; 06-29-2006 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

I have Ali at #1 spot alltime, both achievement-wise and head-to-head.

From 1964-1967, I thinke he was peak and nearly unbeatable. He lost a lot from 67 -70, and was merely great when he came back (1970-1975). Still good enough to take a series with Frazier and to recapture the title from Foreman.

After Manilla, he was more ordinary, nowhere near what he had been. The 1977 Ali loses to a prime Holmes, Foreman, Frazier, Louis, Marciano, Lewis, Tyson and maybe others.

Did Tyson bring enough to the ring after prison to handle that version of Ali?

IMO, probably.
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

ali would beat tyson.............tyson looked horrid after prison...shit he got outboxed for 2 rds against buster mathis jr...........ali would win
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

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Originally Posted by anut
ali would beat tyson.............tyson looked horrid after prison...shit he got outboxed for 2 rds against buster mathis jr...........ali would win
He got outboxed for 2 rounds before brutally stopping Mathis.


Its called Ring Rust.
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

I would go with Tyson UD.

Last edited by ApatheticLeader; 08-29-2006 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

Is this even a debate?

Tyson wasn't THAT bad post-prison. He still beat everyone he fought except for Holyfield and Lewis, both ATGs (we won't count the Williams/McBride fights, Ali had that too with Berbick). He was a shell of his former self, sure, but he was still dangerous as hell and kept putting contenders to sleep.

On the other hand, 1977 Ali was shot. Totally shot. We might as well compare McBride Tyson to this Ali - there's no comparison, he was utterly done by 1977.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

I dont see why people are picking Ali over Tyson in this regard?? Whats next?? Is the Ali that fought Holmes going to beat Rocky Marciano and Jack Dempsey on the same night. Tyson yes pass his best, STILL had a lot of talent, his bout with the Real Deal was a classic. Yes he lost, but it was pretty fun.

Ali was at the end of the round in 77, and wont be long until he loses to a 6-0-1 fighter.
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:17 AM   #39
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

Tyson by KO, it's a fact if you ask me. Source? Thrilla in Manilla. Imagine what Tyson would do that night. Better upper body and head movement than Frazier and alot faster punches.

Last edited by emma; 08-28-2006 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:29 AM   #40
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

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Originally Posted by Griip
Tyson by KO, it's a fact if you ask me. Source? Thrilla in Manilla. Imagine what Tyson would do that night. Better upper body and head movement than Frazier and alot faster punches.
no man, i'm a big tyson fan but even that ali would have beaten tyson. look at what ali did to frazier in that fight! look how much punishment he absorbed and how many punches he dished out. tyson isn't a bully but he won't have a strategical answer to that kind of output from ali. ali will absorb tyson's best shots and come right back. '77 ali was shot to shit so i'll pick tyson in a scenario that has no bearing on greatness or prime for prime.

for the most part, frazier was also a better fighter than tyson even if he was less talented and not as versatile. frazier would have ko'd buster douglas - guaranteed! he'd have beaten holyfield and be a game undergod against the big, monster punching lewis.
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Old 11-03-2007, 05:01 AM   #41
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

Tyson, possibly by stoppage.
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Old 11-03-2007, 09:17 AM   #42
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

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Originally Posted by hobgoblin
no man, i'm a big tyson fan but even that ali would have beaten tyson. look at what ali did to frazier in that fight! look how much punishment he absorbed and how many punches he dished out. tyson isn't a bully but he won't have a strategical answer to that kind of output from ali. ali will absorb tyson's best shots and come right back. '77 ali was shot to shit so i'll pick tyson in a scenario that has no bearing on greatness or prime for prime.

for the most part, frazier was also a better fighter than tyson even if he was less talented and not as versatile. frazier would have ko'd buster douglas - guaranteed! he'd have beaten holyfield and be a game undergod against the big, monster punching lewis.
no man, I'm a huge Ali fan but Tyson would beat Ali any day
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:30 AM   #43
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

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Originally Posted by Quick Cash
By the fifteenth, Tyson would have an insurmountable lead on the scorecards likely due to knockdown/s. Ali would be hard-pressed to pull this one out.

I never understand why people say these things when pitting Ali against Tyson. fact is Ali even at that age and he would have trained hard for this one had one of the best chins ever in boxing. While Tyson never finshied a fight when taking any really punishment in his entire career ehich eh would against a well trained Ali even at that stage of his career. Yet everytime these two are matched up someone comes up with the Ali would have trouble staying on his feet opinion. Don't get it when its so obviously the other way around.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:13 PM   #44
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

Ali in '77 was a shot fighter. At that point in his career his skills were severely diminished and he was beginning to exhibit signs of parkinsons or pugilistica dementia or both. If shavers had pressed the issue more and was'nt in awe of Ali he would have stopped him. Tyson would have too many weapons at his disposal for that version of Ali and would have stopped him midway through the fight. Ali's clinching and holding would prolong things for a little while but Tyson would eventually nail him with a 3 or 4 punch combo and end it. Ali at that point in his career had no power left and therefore would have no way to get Tyson's respect. I see this as similar to the Holmes-Tyson affair with a similar ending as well. It's no surprise that after the Shaver's fight, Teddy Brenner who was matchmaker in New York for Madison Square Garden at the time said after the fight that he would no longer promote another Ali fight in MSG for Ali's sake, that's how bad he looked. Tyson would have done a number on that version of Ali.

Last edited by Max Molyneux; 08-28-2006 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:20 PM   #45
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Default Re: Post- Prison- Tyson vs. 77- Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by arther1045
I never understand why people say these things when pitting Ali against Tyson. fact is Ali even at that age and he would have trained hard for this one had one of the best chins ever in boxing. While Tyson never finshied a fight when taking any really punishment in his entire career ehich eh would against a well trained Ali even at that stage of his career. Yet everytime these two are matched up someone comes up with the Ali would have trouble staying on his feet opinion. Don't get it when its so obviously the other way around.
not with 1977 version. that version was shot imo. agreed, ali had a great chin and a fighter's heart so tyson would have his work cut out for him. ali couldn't dish out like he used too. not enough to put down tyson. if you don't consider chin + mental strength, but chin alone, ali and tyson were close. tyson's chin never failed him. and you don't think he took punishment against ruddock? ruddock was not 1% the fighter ali was but he was a deadly puncher who landed his best shots on tyson, shots that would have felled lesser men in brutal fashion but tyson made them look ok.
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