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Old 10-26-2009, 01:42 PM   #1
El Cepillo
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Default Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

As above, I've heard a few people suggest that in ten years we'll all be saying how great he was. But I tend to think the opposite may well be true. Certainly if Kessler fails in the super six, its going to make Calzaghe's resume look worse than it already is. Hard to predict these things though, thoughts?
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

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Originally Posted by El Cepillo View Post
As above, I've heard a few people suggest that in ten years we'll all be saying how great he was. But I tend to think the opposite may well be true. Certainly if Kessler fails in the super six, its going to make Calzaghe's resume look worse than it already is. Hard to predict these things though, thoughts?
Depends on who wins the super 6. The Winner of that if its Abraham or Froch will be a big step towards being as good as Calzaghe's record.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Bad either way. He will not be remembered. Got a gift against hopkins and embarssed himself against jones. Got dropped in his two biggest fights and a unrivalled padded resume.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Not hating on him again however it all decides on the likes of Froch/Kessler

In years if Kessler has gone onto great things then Calzaghe will be looked back on favourably. If he doesn't or if Froch goes on to win the Super 6 his greatest win will surely be overshadowed. The Lacy win, as impressive as it was at the time means less and less nowadays especially as he wasn't even considered for the Super 6 and the Hopkins one will always be disputed and the whole 'Hopkins was 42' issue will always surround it.

Personally i'll not change my opinion on him but whether others do or not remains to be seen
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Even if Kessler wins the Super six it means nothing. Kessler will have just improved in spite of his loss. Calzaghe fans are DESPERATE for him to be accepted by mainstream fans as one of the greats, its NEVER going to happen.

His unbeaten record wasn't the product of talent alone, it was an empty division. Calzaghe wouldn't have been a champion in the Benn/Eubank/Collins era. He's have been finished in the first by a prime Jones- no doubt about it.

Would he have beaten James Toney? No. Montell Griffin? No. Prime Jones? No. Prime Bernard? No. Benn? No. Wharton? Debatable. Eubank? No. Collins? No. Dean Francis? Debatable. Reid? Debatable (as proven). McLellon? Doubt it. Liles? Possibly.

The division emptied after Benn lost to Malinga and Liles lost to Mitchell. The titles changed hands between Malinga, Nardiello, Beyer, Catley, Woodhall, Reid, Danny Green and the only consistent fighter was Ottke -who sucked.

Kessler emerged having lost to Paul Smith in the amateurs. He was considered decent and dangerous but not a world beater. His record like Calzaghe's was largely inflated and despite been a tidier boxer then Calzaghe his lack of urgency led to him been outscored whilst trying to deal with Joe's southpaw style.

Lacy rose to prominence beating domestic US operators. The only decent performance was against Reid who came into the fight having trained in a swimming pool for two weeks. He looked electric in that fight but it was a complete freak performance against a moody past prime former champion who was in poor form from the start.

Hopkins beat a club fighter in Kelly Pavllik and a uninterested Antonio Tarver who clearly hadn't prepared correctly and obviously had lost to Carl Froch victim Jermain Taylor.

Jones was SHOT. So SHOT it is embarassing that he lasted the course.

Cart horses still make races. Joe was the fastest Cart horse of his generation. He wouldn't have lasted with the above fighters. No chance. If in doubt check out the knockdowns suffered against Salem, Mitchell, Hopkins and Jones. Or the mediocre performmances against Giminez, Starie, Bika, Reid, Woodhall etc etc...
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?



Thread of the year ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Wait till HOF reads this... He'll be crying his eyes out.
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l22Sn3vJYVc&feature=related[/ame]
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

jesus....jeff thomas !!....i didnt realise you sat on that side of the fence when it came to calzaghe.
well...if theres any opinions i respect on here, yours is one of them...but, even talking about prime benn, eubank, toney, jones, hopkins is neither here nor there as we'll never know...
my way of looking at it is..that we'll never know how he would have done against a prime jones {and i agree..i think jones would walk through him}...and to be wbo champ for so long before moving to lacy, kessler etc means he was a much shorter time as best at super middle than what people may think...
but...that win over kessler cannot be underestimated, and if kessler wins the super six even more so...and although you can call hopkins past his best, you have to look at that pavlik fight.....hopkins wasnt shot like jones, hopkins is one of those freaks like archie moore and foreman etc...but, then again, it was awfully close to call it a decisive win...

will calzaghes legacy improve over time?...maybe not.


and jeff....do you really think pavlik is a club fighter ?

or is your post a wind-up jeffro ?

.
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff thomas View Post
Even if Kessler wins the Super six it means nothing. Kessler will have just improved in spite of his loss. Calzaghe fans are DESPERATE for him to be accepted by mainstream fans as one of the greats, its NEVER going to happen.

His unbeaten record wasn't the product of talent alone, it was an empty division. Calzaghe wouldn't have been a champion in the Benn/Eubank/Collins era. He's have been finished in the first by a prime Jones- no doubt about it.

Would he have beaten James Toney? No. Montell Griffin? No. Prime Jones? No. Prime Bernard? No. Benn? No. Wharton? Debatable. Eubank? No. Collins? No. Dean Francis? Debatable. Reid? Debatable (as proven). McLellon? Doubt it. Liles? Possibly.

The division emptied after Benn lost to Malinga and Liles lost to Mitchell. The titles changed hands between Malinga, Nardiello, Beyer, Catley, Woodhall, Reid, Danny Green and the only consistent fighter was Ottke -who sucked.

Kessler emerged having lost to Paul Smith in the amateurs. He was considered decent and dangerous but not a world beater. His record like Calzaghe's was largely inflated and despite been a tidier boxer then Calzaghe his lack of urgency led to him been outscored whilst trying to deal with Joe's southpaw style.

Lacy rose to prominence beating domestic US operators. The only decent performance was against Reid who came into the fight having trained in a swimming pool for two weeks. He looked electric in that fight but it was a complete freak performance against a moody past prime former champion who was in poor form from the start.

Hopkins beat a club fighter in Kelly Pavllik and a uninterested Antonio Tarver who clearly hadn't prepared correctly and obviously had lost to Carl Froch victim Jermain Taylor.

Jones was SHOT. So SHOT it is embarassing that he lasted the course.

Cart horses still make races. Joe was the fastest Cart horse of his generation. He wouldn't have lasted with the above fighters. No chance. If in doubt check out the knockdowns suffered against Salem, Mitchell, Hopkins and Jones. Or the mediocre performmances against Giminez, Starie, Bika, Reid, Woodhall etc etc...
I am a big Calzaghe fan, but you have really put some true facts in your post Jeff...some really fair and balanced comments...

Although his performance v Lacy and Kessler were great, it is only 2 contests out of 40+...
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Calzaghe is one of the best to ever do it. Bottom line
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

the prime jones vs prime calzaghe argument is a pile of shit considering calzaghe was past his prime when they fought too, anyone anytime does not just walk through calzaghe and anyway a lot of hypothetical arguing doesn't change the fact calzaghe beat jones down when they actually fought

Just because americans are taking notice of a british fighter does not make them in their prime (see naz for further evidence)
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

Well, he did beat Eubank...
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:14 PM   #14
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

fook you jeffro
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