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Old 11-06-2009, 12:29 PM   #76
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
F.O., Peawee............. If Benny Leonard even dreamed in a time machine he could hurt or KO Duran, he better wake up and apologize.......

MR.BILL

Peawee,

Also, your butt-buddy Jofre may have been great at 118 pounds, but for Christ Sake, nobody could hardly ever get that guy to leave his backyard in Brazil.......
There is so much wrong with this post it unbelievable.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:29 PM   #77
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Put this on a Duran vs. Leonard thread. As it happens, I agree with you (but by decision), but we're talking about their accomplishments.

And to the poster who said 'head-to-head is a good criteria' - it is, depending on what you want. And I already said that. For me, accomplishments and how good a fighter was for his time is more important than a direct match up.
Okay, kool......... But now, we need to work / look deep into this hoopla of Benny Leonard and his accomplishments.... What for? Cuz, as I pointed out, Ben Leonard fought over 200 pro fights with 70 of them bouts ending in KO / TKO, etc........... Well, fine........... As far as the KO % goes, its on the low side when mixed in with the initial equation of fighting 217 fights or so.............

NOW!!! As a few others have stated and I must agree, because, back in the old golden days / nights of boxing, many fights were in fact set-up as exhibitions and publicity type fights in which a reporter or newspaper man would be the deciding judge for the contest......... Well, okay, fine again... But let's put those type of fights aside.... I'm merely interested in determining who was better / greater based on actual sanctioned fights in which good money was really on the line, as well as the man's career.....

Benny Leonard was a great boxer with fine skills; no doubt......... Anyone who argues that fact is insane........

Now, back to my man Roberto Duran... Duran defended his lightweight title 12 X and scored 11 of them defenses by KO between '72 thru '78....... Nice........ BUT! How can we dismiss all them "Over-the-Limit / Non-Title" fights that Duran fought during his reign as 135 lb. champion??? In my eyes, we CANNOT dismiss them bouts............ And as was stated earlier, Duran fought and beat an entire crop of damn good contenders during that reign of terror............ That's all I'm saying.......... Peace......


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Old 11-06-2009, 12:31 PM   #78
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

Minotauro,

I personally give the hair off a rats ass if you approve or do not.......... Read my follow up post for Christ sake............. Leonard was great at 135, but overall, I rate Duran as even greater............ I'm not budging back on that, either......... Nuff said...........

MR.BILL
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:40 PM   #79
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Okay, kool......... But now, we need to work / look deep into this hoopla of Benny Leonard and his accomplishments.... What for? Cuz, as I pointed out, Ben Leonard fought over 200 pro fights with 70 of them bouts ending in KO / TKO, etc........... Well, fine........... As far as the KO % goes, its on the low side when mixed in with the initial equation of fighting 217 fights or so.............

NOW!!! As a few others have stated and I must agree, because, back in the old golden days / nights of boxing, many fights were in fact set-up as exhibitions and publicity type fights in which a reporter or newspaper man would be the deciding judge for the contest......... Well, okay, fine again... But let's put those type of fights aside.... I'm merely interested in determining who was better / greater based on actual sanctioned fights in which good money was really on the line, as well as the man's career.....

Benny Leonard was a great boxer with fine skills; no doubt......... Anyone who argues that fact is insane........

Now, back to my man Roberto Duran... Duran defended his lightweight title 12 X and scored 11 of them defenses by KO between '72 thru '78....... Nice........ BUT! How can we dismiss all them "Over-the-Limit / Non-Title" fights that Duran fought during his reign as 135 lb. champion??? In my eyes, we CANNOT dismiss them bouts............ And as was stated earlier, Duran fought and beat an entire crop of damn good contenders during that reign of terror............ That's all I'm saying.......... Peace......


MR.BILL
I know all about Duran's over-the-weight wins and nobody is dismissing them. If you want to rate Duran higher then it has to be on a pound-for-pound list based on his other exploits, because Leonard was the most dominant lightweight in the strongest era of lightweights (and I stress) relative to his era. The division was jam packed, full, not of Ray Lampkin equivalents but Esteban De Jesus equivalents.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:51 PM   #80
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Minotauro,

I personally give the hair off a rats ass if you approve or do not.......... Read my follow up post for Christ sake............. Leonard was great at 135, but overall, I rate Duran as even greater............ I'm not budging back on that, either......... Nuff said...........

MR.BILL
What does it matter if Jofre hardly fought out of Brazil, its not like he needed the home judges or failed to fight anyone. And Leonard was hardly feather fisted he put Britton down which is a huge feat when you consider he was only stopped once in close to like 200 fights. While I don't believe he would stop Duran to say he should apologize for even thinking it shows a lack of knowledge.

P.S You don't have to sign each one of your posts.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:17 PM   #81
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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P.S You don't have to sign each one of your posts.
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:57 PM   #82
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

I just get TICKED at times............... Look, if people want to rate Benny Leonard at # 1 that's okay with me........ I'm not really gonna cry a river over that..... Leonard at # 1 is a legitimate argument to rant about.... I'm cool there........... BUT! That is not going to change my opinion of Roberto Duran to being the greatest 135 pounder of all-time, in my book......

I lived through the era of Duran and I watched him closely the last 21 yrs of his career as his fights occured.... I cannot say the same about Benjamin Leonard...... Leonard died in 1947 which happens to be 20 years prior to my hatching....... I have read up on B.L. and I've seen some footage, but not nearly as much footage as I have recorded from Roberto Duran....... Trust me, I have videos' galore of all kinds of cool and classic shit on hand....... I've been recording fights onto tape since 1982............. I love ESPN Classics; yet I hate regular ESPN............ Cheers.........

SR.BILL
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:03 PM   #83
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

My top-3 ATG fighters that I fully admire and enjoy are:

1.) Roberto Duran
2.) Muhammad Ali
3.) Raymond Leonard

After that my list gets tricky......... But I am very attached to the greats of the 70s and 80s like: "Larry Holmes, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Wilfredo Gomez, Salvador Sanchez, Alexis Arguello, Azumah Nelson, George Foreman, Michael Spinks, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Zarate and several others who fought during that frame........ Them are just a few names of ex-champs that I really liked........ Peace.......

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Old 11-06-2009, 03:48 PM   #84
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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when did I say all the others old fighters are rubbish just because I don't believe Benny Leonard was a great fighter does'nt mean I don't rate the old fighters I rate Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jack Johnson, Ike Williams and many more, Every point I made about why I don't believe Benny Leonard is great fighter Hd 2 Hd is a valid point,

you need calm and not get so offended just because I make a point.
The point you made was an unintentional one, I think,it concerns your competency to appraise and evaluate fighters skills and overall ability..
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:04 PM   #85
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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The point you made was an unintentional one, I think,it concerns your competency to appraise and evaluate fighters skills and overall ability..
and how does it
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:53 PM   #86
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
F.O., Peawee............. If Benny Leonard even dreamed in a time machine he could hurt or KO Duran, he better wake up and apologize.......
Who said he would KO Duran? You made a retarded statement, per usual, and I called you out on it, as you had nothing to back it up with. All you ever do is talk out your ass. You may as well shave it, stand on your hands and walk backwards the rest of your life.

Quote:
Also, your butt-buddy Jofre may have been great at 118 pounds, but for Christ Sake, nobody could hardly ever get that guy to leave his backyard in Brazil.......
Case in point.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:04 PM   #87
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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and how does it
If you don't rate Leonard as a great fighter ,I dont want to debate with you.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:15 PM   #88
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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If you don't rate Leonard as a great fighter ,I dont want to debate with you.
all I said was based on what I've seen of him I don't rate him high Hd 2 Hd, he over reaches, sticks his chin up in the air and his footwork is all over the place whats wrong with saying that when its true. I never insulted the man or said that he was useless just that I don't think he's that great.

you need to chillout and be able to be more acepting of other people's opinion's especially when the points they make are valid points.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:16 PM   #89
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

Leonard's one of my favorite fighters.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:21 PM   #90
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Originally Posted by sugarsean View Post
all I said was based on what I've seen of him I don't rate him high Hd 2 Hd, he over reaches, sticks his chin up in the air and his footwork is all over the place whats wrong with saying that when its true. I never insulted the man or said that he was useless just that I don't think he's that great.

you need to chillout and be able to be more acepting of other people's opinion's especially when the points they make are valid points.
When they are valid points with objective ,,and astute analysis to reinforce them I accept them readily ,whether they concide with my own opinion sor not.
Your statements do not tick either of those boxes I am afraid
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