Shane Cameron

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

Just being honest. I hardly think Holyfield is scared of Cameron mate that is fucking ridiculous. Holyfield has been in with every great heavy of the past 10 years just about. As if he is scared to fight Cameron. Same with Tua. He fought Lennox Lewis but is scared to fight Cameron?

I don't think Tua or Holyfield are necessarily scared of Cameron, but I think both want/wanted easier rides to title shots, like Rahman and Briggs. I think they're milking whatver is left of their names casual appeal (much like Moorer and Mesi), to get to the top and bypasssing stiffer challenges, like the one Cameron represents. Cameron would I suspect be very competitive with Holyfield at this stage of their careers, ditto with Tua, I don't think fighters like Holyfield and Tua are really serious players anymore... I think i'll go out on a limb and pick Ibragimov to stop Holyfield late (though in fairness to Holyfield he's still dangerous in early portions of this fight due to the question marks surrounding Sultans' chin... maybe some ealy trouble, but Sultan should just be too sharp for Holyfield whos reflexes in defence look poor).

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Morrison had awesome offensive skills but if you look at the most dominant heavies of the last 30 years or so, most had great defensive capabilities and Morrison did not. Wlad, Lewis, Ali, Holmes, among others.
Nor did he have the intimidation ability and fearsome attack that Tyson had. Plus Tyson had a better chin and good head movement to allow him to be on the attack all the time.

Just a small point of contention there, I wouldn't describe Wlad as a great defensive fighter... he's tall, has a great, long jab, moves well, and clinches well. While this is imposing, and present problems, compared to Lewis his defence is lacking, Lewis was a solid defensive infighter (Wlad only holds inside), Wlad also has very little head and upper body movement (Lewis had decent head/upper body movent for a big man), I think mentally Lewis handles pressure better as well, Wlad has improved massivley in this area but I still see him pause a bit when under fire (he used to completely turn away and flail when he was younger though, huge improvement from those days).

I think he's a good champion, who could beat some great fighters (and perhaps lose to fighters ranked below him) due to the way styles match up... I think he has defensive holes that'll show against fast and explosive punchers, especially if they've got solid tools to break down the distance, whether it be excellent foot work, reach, and or explosive handspeed (types of fighters the division doesn't really possess atm). Or fighters who are just tough and skilled enough to get to him and break him down over rounds (prime Mercer, Ibeabuchi).

[WhataRock]

Wlad's defense compared to Morrison was the only point I was trying to make.

Time will tell, Wlad is dominating at the moment.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Wlad's defense compared to Morrison was the only point I was trying to make.

Time will tell, Wlad is dominating at the moment.

I'm not saying Wlad can't be an ATG (he's got plenty of other things to work with, and he'll probably be spending a fair while longer at the top so he atleast looks like a lock for the HOF), i'm just saying that unless his defence gains another dimension I wouldn't really think of it as great (whilst no question superior to Morrisons), Wlad imo isn't a name that deserves to be put next to Lewis and Tyson when talking about great defences.

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by Dekkers

I don't think Tua or Holyfield are necessarily scared of Cameron, but I think both want/wanted easier rides to title shots, like Rahman and Briggs. I think they're milking whatver is left of their names casual appeal (much like Moorer and Mesi), to get to the top and bypasssing stiffer challenges, like the one Cameron represents. Cameron would I suspect be very competitive with Holyfield at this stage of their careers, ditto with Tua, I don't think fighters like Holyfield and Tua are really serious players anymore... I think i'll go out on a limb and pick Ibragimov to stop Holyfield late (though in fairness to Holyfield he's still dangerous in early portions of this fight due to the question marks surrounding Sultans' chin... maybe some ealy trouble, but Sultan should just be too sharp for Holyfield whos reflexes in defence look poor).

Good post, but if you read my other posts after this one I stated pretty much the exact same thing.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

Good post, but if you read my other posts after this one I stated pretty much the exact same thing.

Yep, we're definitely in agreement about this whole 'scared' thing, though I think you're a little more generous regarding the quality of Holys opposition than I am. Saw the Fres Oquendo fight for example and Fres looked terrible (fair bit worse than usual)... and I still thought Fres won

I think you see as Cameron on the same level as some of Holys' current opp, I see him giving Holy life and death

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by Dekkers

Yep, we're definitely in agreement about this whole 'scared' thing, though I think you're a little more generous regarding the quality of Holys opposition than I am. Saw the Fres Oquendo fight for example and Fres looked terrible (fair bit worse than usual)... and I still thought Fres won

I think you see as Cameron on the same level as some of Holys' current opp, I see him giving Holy life and death

Nah I probably agree with you there. Holys recent opposition has been okay name and experience wise, but that doesn't necessarily make them better then Cameron. A young, undefeated and hungry fighter is going to be the tougher fight most probably, although it will be hard to tell just how good Cameron really is until he takes a true step up in class.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

Nah I probably agree with you there. Holys recent opposition has been okay name and experience wise, but that doesn't necessarily make them better then Cameron. A young, undefeated and hungry fighter is going to be the tougher fight most probably, although it will be hard to tell just how good Cameron really is until he takes a true step up in class.

What the hell ?! We're agreeing again ... you alright mate, heard you broke your leg, not running a fever or anything are you

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by Dekkers

What the hell ?! We're agreeing again ... you alright mate, heard you broke your leg, not running a fever or anything are you

hahaha. No fever mate fortunately. What your saying is definitely right. It sucks that boxing is so political, because guys like Cameron should be getting a shot, instead of some of the old war horses. I heard that Moorer might be getting another shot at the title. That would be dreadful. I saw him in a recent comeback fight and he was horribly over weight and fought like crap. Kind of shows you the depth in the heavy weight division at the moment.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

hahaha. No fever mate fortunately. What your saying is definitely right. It sucks that boxing is so political, because guys like Cameron should be getting a shot, instead of some of the old war horses. I heard that Moorer might be getting another shot at the title. That would be dreadful. I saw him in a recent comeback fight and he was horribly over weight and fought like crap. Kind of shows you the depth in the heavy weight division at the moment.

Not to worry, when these guys start getting around on walking frames and electric wheelchairs (only a couple more years really) more deserving fighters will start getting into the mix

[LeonMcS]

Pretty sure I read not too long ago that Morrison is on the comeback stage claiming to be CLEAR of HIV. I know thats a medical marvel but some tests done indicate that this is true. If so, he may have been mis-diagnosed all those years ago. Seems a pretty flaky story, think it was in Alpha magazine only an issue or two ago.

Saw the Cameron-Mirovic fight on the Mundine-Soliman card, remember Shane breaking his hand in the first round and being very impressed that he wore down Bob then ko'd him. Who knows, with the right training and backup he could go places, definetely no questions about his heart.

How many bloody Heavyweights are coming out of retirement lately? Moorer, Mercer, McCall still going, Holyfield...good for someone like me who hasn't followed the scene closely for a few years, suddenly I know all about the Heavys again!

[ozziebattler]

Originally Posted by LeonMcS

Pretty sure I read not too long ago that Morrison is on the comeback stage claiming to be CLEAR of HIV. I know thats a medical marvel but some tests done indicate that this is true. If so, he may have been mis-diagnosed all those years ago. Seems a pretty flaky story, think it was in Alpha magazine only an issue or two ago.

Saw the Cameron-Mirovic fight on the Mundine-Soliman card, remember Shane breaking his hand in the first round and being very impressed that he wore down Bob then ko'd him. Who knows, with the right training and backup he could go places, definetely no questions about his heart.

How many bloody Heavyweights are coming out of retirement lately? Moorer, Mercer, McCall still going, Holyfield...good for someone like me who hasn't followed the scene closely for a few years, suddenly I know all about the Heavys again!

Yeah man morrison is back fighting..He won by 2nd rd ko against some bum.He was getting dominated abit until he landed his left hook.

Morrisons life is one strange story.Hiv diagnoses(spelling) cost him 20million dollar fight with Tyson...

I know thats a huge figure but got to remember people back in 96 would of paid shitloads to watch those 2 fight.most people believed tyson was still the man back then.I DID..LOL.

Fuck i miss the 90's,there were some top heavyweight around than..

How much you reckon the top heavyweights get paid these days..

I remember tyson saying he made more millionaires then the lotto.

Cant see the heavyweights these days being worth much...

[Bobby]

tommy morrison is one of my all time favs, i have every fight i could get of his, fav being the one against joe hipp, what a war, he was fed some bums but had huge heaqrt when in over his head. i have a vid called tommy morrison story done by bill cayton similar to mike tyson the right stuff, sa promo tape, some olf the guys he beat, man they looked like lightheavyweight kkk members that learnt to box the day before, butwhenhimo, his win over stewpped up he was world class in all areas but stamin

[Bobby]

btw his win over foreman was easily his smartest and most complete performance i think,

[LeonMcS]

Wouldn't mind seeing the Hipp fight, actually have some Morrison fights due any day in the post. That ko he suffered from Mercer was brutal, but when I started reading about his record again, I'd forgotten he beat guys like Razor Ruddock!

Interesting that he has fought again, surely that means health wise hes ok. Very strange story there.

The 90s seemed to have more legit contenders at some stages, not up with the current crop yet but yeah, if all these old fellas are coming back it doesn't bode too well. Still, the best matchups never happened then Bowe-Lewis or after one fighters prime Lewis-Tyson.

No idea of the purses nowadays, in his prime I know Tyson regualarly made huge purses, sometimes 8 figures. I've read stories that he has lost 100s of millions during his career, something that isn't unfeasible. I guess title holders nowadays still do ok, but if you asked the bloke on the street to name a heavyweight champ at the moment, you'd be lucky to get a right answer. The level of interest is certainly way down from then.

Still reckon the 60s and 70s were the best heavyweight era, a bit before my time though.

Bobby that vid sounds great, any chance of a copy?