Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

Addie · 11-18-2009, 09:54 PM

I rewatched Leonard vs Hagler, and he kept saying, "smooth baby". Was Angelo a great trainer or just a yes man for fighters who already had all of the natural talent (Ali, Leonard, Nunn, etc)

PetethePrince · 11-18-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

I rewatched Leonard vs Hagler, and he kept saying, "smooth baby". Was Angelo a great trainer or just a yes man for fighters who already had all of the natural talent (Ali, Leonard, Nunn, etc)

Great trainer. Because he never tried doing too much, and knew how to move or get his fighters to do what they needed to.

GazOC · 11-18-2009, 10:13 PM

Great trainer. He's trained enough fighters to great things over the years to at least get SOME of the credit!!

CottoDaBodykill · 11-19-2009, 12:02 AM

who all has dundeed trained?

Addie · 11-19-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CottoDaBodykill

who all has dundeed trained?

He was with Basillo, don't know if he trained him, and I know he was with Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Michael Nunn, Jimmy Ellis, and Jose Napoles. Comeback Foreman too, of course. Reading Wikipedia, he also worked with Wilfredo Gomez and Sugar Ramos. That's a hell of a list of fighters.

CottoDaBodykill · 11-19-2009, 12:49 AM

damn dundeed has been around!

TFFP · 11-19-2009, 01:06 AM

If he was no good I think word would have got around !

JohnThomas1 · 11-19-2009, 03:28 AM

He's underrated, certainly on this forum.

Unforgiven · 11-19-2009, 03:50 AM

He was a great CORNERMAN. And a great CUT-MAN. I see that on film.

As a trainer, who are we to say ? Unless you were trained by Dundee your opinion doesn't mean much. I assume he was a good trainer, at least. But guys like Ali and Leonard didn't really need much training when they turned pro. Ali especially wouldn't have listened or even benefitted from listening to someone who tried to "train" him too much.

I hate some of the stuff I read on this forum denigrating certain trainers, (for example, the Petronellis, or Victor Valle, or whoever, proper old school guys) as being "not great" or "mediocre" and then suggesting a Manny Steward is clearly much "greater". It seems that fame, name recognition, and self-publicity trainers automatically get called great at the expense of others. And saying that, I acknowledge that Manny Steward must be pretty damn good trainer. I just hate it when some fool on this site says something like " .... Gerry Cooney would have been better had he had a Manny Steward in his corner!" ..... a total insult to Cooney's actual trainers, and totally unfounded too.

Also, I think being a "great" trainer has nothing to do with working with great fighters. It should be measured by how far a trainer brings a kid from that kid's own starting point. It could mean getting a feeble bullied child far enough to stand his ground and fight back in a 3-round fight with some semblance of boxing. I think that takes more doing than calling up Lennox Lewis and telling him you can help him regain the championship.

Jear · 11-19-2009, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addie

He was with Basillo, don't know if he trained him, and I know he was with Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Michael Nunn, Jimmy Ellis, and Jose Napoles. Comeback Foreman too, of course. Reading Wikipedia, he also worked with Wilfredo Gomez and Sugar Ramos. That's a hell of a list of fighters.

He had Willie Pastrano too from memory

Shake · 11-19-2009, 05:05 AM

I think we all intuitively know he wasn't one to teach a dog new tricks. Besides that, he seems like a great trainer.

natonic · 11-19-2009, 06:42 AM

He also trained Luis Manuel Rodriguez (speaking of underrated).

lefthook31 · 11-19-2009, 07:54 AM

I was an apprentice under Dundee in the early 90's. Hes a great guy and a great boxing mind. We worked with many fighters from the Swedish olympic team like Atilla Levin and George Scott along with Luis Lagerman, who is also a pretty decent trainer. I think his last project was going to be Atilla Levin, but he really didnt have much of a fighting heart when he moved up the ranks. Obviously Ali and Leonard were his big names, but hes got a whole laundry list of champions that hes worked with. I remember the day we were contacted by Mike Tysons people to possibly train him. I was really excited at the chance to possibly work with Mike during his comeback.

Seamus · 11-19-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefthook31

I was an apprentice under Dundee in the early 90's. Hes a great guy and a great boxing mind. We worked with many fighters from the Swedish olympic team like Atilla Levin and George Scott along with Luis Lagerman, who is also a pretty decent trainer. I think his last project was going to be Atilla Levin, but he really didnt have much of a fighting heart when he moved up the ranks. Obviously Ali and Leonard were his big names, but hes got a whole laundry list of champions that hes worked with. I remember the day we were contacted by Mike Tysons people to possibly train him. I was really excited at the chance to possibly work with Mike during his comeback.

Sweet story.

I remember him working with a Scandinavian light heavy back then, too. The guy was talented but kept getting KO'd when he stepped up. I forget his name.

I got to admit I used to underrate Angelo, mostly due to his involvement with Ali when Ali should not have been fighting.

TBooze · 11-19-2009, 10:15 AM

Dundee knew how to deal with fighters. Training an experienced Leonard, Foreman or indeed Ali, sometimes all you needed to be was a cheerleader (which I think many charge Dundee with being) that stoked up the ego to help motivate the fighter.

But Dundee knew his stuff, and thus attracted some of the best fighters of this era.

11-18-2009, 09:54 PM	#1
Addie MAB. East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK, England Posts: 36,388 vCash: 842	Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man I rewatched Leonard vs Hagler, and he kept saying, "smooth baby". Was Angelo a great trainer or just a yes man for fighters who already had all of the natural talent (Ali, Leonard, Nunn, etc)
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11-18-2009, 10:13 PM	#3
GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Spion Kop Posts: 44,504 vCash: 1000	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man Great trainer. He's trained enough fighters to great things over the years to at least get SOME of the credit!!
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11-19-2009, 12:02 AM	#4
CottoDaBodykill Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flint Posts: 13,165 vCash: 4047	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man who all has dundeed trained?
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11-19-2009, 12:49 AM	#6
CottoDaBodykill Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flint Posts: 13,165 vCash: 4047	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man damn dundeed has been around!
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11-19-2009, 01:06 AM	#7
TFFP The Eskimo East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Reykjavík Posts: 30,426 vCash: 2500	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man If he was no good I think word would have got around !
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11-19-2009, 03:28 AM	#8
JohnThomas1 Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 12,184 vCash: 1000	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man He's underrated, certainly on this forum.
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11-19-2009, 03:50 AM	#9
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13,203 vCash: 1000	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man He was a great CORNERMAN. And a great CUT-MAN. I see that on film. As a trainer, who are we to say ? Unless you were trained by Dundee your opinion doesn't mean much. I assume he was a good trainer, at least. But guys like Ali and Leonard didn't really need much training when they turned pro. Ali especially wouldn't have listened or even benefitted from listening to someone who tried to "train" him too much. I hate some of the stuff I read on this forum denigrating certain trainers, (for example, the Petronellis, or Victor Valle, or whoever, proper old school guys) as being "not great" or "mediocre" and then suggesting a Manny Steward is clearly much "greater". It seems that fame, name recognition, and self-publicity trainers automatically get called great at the expense of others. And saying that, I acknowledge that Manny Steward must be pretty damn good trainer. I just hate it when some fool on this site says something like " .... Gerry Cooney would have been better had he had a Manny Steward in his corner!" ..... a total insult to Cooney's actual trainers, and totally unfounded too. Also, I think being a "great" trainer has nothing to do with working with great fighters. It should be measured by how far a trainer brings a kid from that kid's own starting point. It could mean getting a feeble bullied child far enough to stand his ground and fight back in a 3-round fight with some semblance of boxing. I think that takes more doing than calling up Lennox Lewis and telling him you can help him regain the championship.
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11-19-2009, 05:05 AM	#11
Shake Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,340 vCash: 75	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man I think we all intuitively know he wasn't one to teach a dog new tricks. Besides that, he seems like a great trainer.
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11-19-2009, 06:42 AM	#12
natonic Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,743 vCash: 1000	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man He also trained Luis Manuel Rodriguez (speaking of underrated).
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11-19-2009, 07:54 AM	#13
lefthook31 Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: in a boxing gym near you Posts: 10,498 vCash: 1000	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man I was an apprentice under Dundee in the early 90's. Hes a great guy and a great boxing mind. We worked with many fighters from the Swedish olympic team like Atilla Levin and George Scott along with Luis Lagerman, who is also a pretty decent trainer. I think his last project was going to be Atilla Levin, but he really didnt have much of a fighting heart when he moved up the ranks. Obviously Ali and Leonard were his big names, but hes got a whole laundry list of champions that hes worked with. I remember the day we were contacted by Mike Tysons people to possibly train him. I was really excited at the chance to possibly work with Mike during his comeback.
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11-19-2009, 10:15 AM	#15
TBooze Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South of London Posts: 9,795 vCash: 234	Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man Dundee knew how to deal with fighters. Training an experienced Leonard, Foreman or indeed Ali, sometimes all you needed to be was a cheerleader (which I think many charge Dundee with being) that stoked up the ego to help motivate the fighter. But Dundee knew his stuff, and thus attracted some of the best fighters of this era.
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