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Old 04-06-2012, 09:49 AM   #1876
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
You haven't seen the Billy Graham fight?

That's one of the most skill packed fights of all time.

I'd rather watch that fight for a 50th time than watch the best fights out there today.

IMO Gavilan takes it close but clear, but many have it differently and the more you watch the fight, the more you'll appreciate Graham's subtlety.
Yeah I saw an 8-7 type fight but wasn't sure which fight it was.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:06 PM   #1877
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Gavilan v Bratton 1

Much more impressed now seeing Gavilan perform at that level against someone who was a quality operator for more than 2 fights.

Gavilan really did kick his **** here and infact the fight probably would have been stopped today when Kid broke his jaw. he probably landed about 50 flush power punches, **** knows how Bratton stayed on his feet because you could see his hands down and his head snapping with every punch.

Awesome defence in the early goings as well, Bratton only landed a handful of shots the rest were slipped.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:36 PM   #1878
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Giardello v Tiger 3.

Joey Giardello, he fights good fight here. Not the most skillful display but it's against a peak ATG in **** Tiger so I can cut him some slack. He boxed well in parts behind the jab and catching Tiger with good shots as he came in. He actually looked like a big MW in there against Tiger. Good punch variety displayed but not the best defence in the world.

In general, at 5'10 he fights quite tall in his fights and doesn't look clumsy when he trades on the inside, infact his punch variety if the thing that impresses me the most. He could throw hard solid jabs, accurate straight rights, disguised uppercuts and solid hooks. His chin is obviously very solid with only suffering two real stoppages, one in his second year as a pro and the other about 100 fights later ijn his 3rd to last fight (didn't get dropped though, ref intervention).

It's fair to say he was confident in his beard and I think at times he's willing to take a punch to land his own and set up a combination (he only had about a 30% ko record though). His defence isn't the best and his hand speed isn't great either.

The times when he boxes he looks really good. The times when he ****es, although he does get off good shots, he can get outlanded because his handspeed, imo, isn't the best.

It's starneg to gauge how good he was because he lost so many fights consistently throughout his career. Even narrowing his prime down to his best 4 years, there's still room for 6 losses. Like a lot of guys from that era he began his career against the rounds of club fighters winning most and dropping the odd fight here and there. He stepped up his competition in about 52 winning big fights against graham and splitting two fights with giambra. over the next 2 years he only lost to graham and saxton (though I'm suspicious of any saxton points victory ) he actually seemingly got to the number 1 contender spot in 54. then he lost to langlois, went 2-2 with some guy named cotton, was stopped on cuts against webb and lost a close fight to tiger jones.

He then split 2 fights with proabably a pre prime Tiger beofre stepping up against the best MW in the world in Fullmer.

I'm not even sure why I've written all this, I'm just trying to get my head around inconsistent he was.

Even allowing for everything before the big fullmer fight to be beofre his prim, there's still 6 losses over the next 4 years.

A range of styles defeated him as well.

I think I'd personally label him as someone who wasn't a great fighter, but someone who could fight great. On his best night he'd give a lot of MW's a good fight and in his best years he did exactly that. It just took him an aweful long time to get to his prime and once there, he still found himself wanting on a number of occassions.

Still, someone drawing against Fullmer and splitting a series with Tiger can't be that bad right?




anyways, back to the point of the post. He fought well against Tiger. good rugged display mainly behind the jab on the backfoot with good combinations on the inside.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:12 PM   #1879
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Great post Luf, I liked this :

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy
I think I'd personally label him as someone who wasn't a great fighter, but someone who could fight great.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:56 AM   #1880
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Marco Antonio Barrera SD12 Erik Morales

Great fight, everyone knows about this one, think it's set me off re-watching the trilogy.

BARRERA: 1,2,3,8,9,11,12
MORALES:4,5,6,7,10

Tough rounds to score sometimes, I think 3 and 7 could have gone either way, but they got one each, so cool. The knockdown was bs, but I still don't think Morales did enough. I think he got nailed down in the eleventh and the twelfth.
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #1881
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Giardello v Tiger 3.

Joey Giardello, he fights good fight here. Not the most skillful display but it's against a peak ATG in **** Tiger so I can cut him some slack. He boxed well in parts behind the jab and catching Tiger with good shots as he came in. He actually looked like a big MW in there against Tiger. Good punch variety displayed but not the best defence in the world.

In general, at 5'10 he fights quite tall in his fights and doesn't look clumsy when he trades on the inside, infact his punch variety if the thing that impresses me the most. He could throw hard solid jabs, accurate straight rights, disguised uppercuts and solid hooks. His chin is obviously very solid with only suffering two real stoppages, one in his second year as a pro and the other about 100 fights later ijn his 3rd to last fight (didn't get dropped though, ref intervention).

It's fair to say he was confident in his beard and I think at times he's willing to take a punch to land his own and set up a combination (he only had about a 30% ko record though). His defence isn't the best and his hand speed isn't great either.

The times when he boxes he looks really good. The times when he ****es, although he does get off good shots, he can get outlanded because his handspeed, imo, isn't the best.

It's starneg to gauge how good he was because he lost so many fights consistently throughout his career. Even narrowing his prime down to his best 4 years, there's still room for 6 losses. Like a lot of guys from that era he began his career against the rounds of club fighters winning most and dropping the odd fight here and there. He stepped up his competition in about 52 winning big fights against graham and splitting two fights with giambra. over the next 2 years he only lost to graham and saxton (though I'm suspicious of any saxton points victory ) he actually seemingly got to the number 1 contender spot in 54. then he lost to langlois, went 2-2 with some guy named cotton, was stopped on cuts against webb and lost a close fight to tiger jones.

He then split 2 fights with proabably a pre prime Tiger beofre stepping up against the best MW in the world in Fullmer.

I'm not even sure why I've written all this, I'm just trying to get my head around inconsistent he was.

Even allowing for everything before the big fullmer fight to be beofre his prim, there's still 6 losses over the next 4 years.

A range of styles defeated him as well.

I think I'd personally label him as someone who wasn't a great fighter, but someone who could fight great. On his best night he'd give a lot of MW's a good fight and in his best years he did exactly that. It just took him an aweful long time to get to his prime and once there, he still found himself wanting on a number of occassions.

Still, someone drawing against Fullmer and splitting a series with Tiger can't be that bad right?




anyways, back to the point of the post. He fought well against Tiger. good rugged display mainly behind the jab on the backfoot with good combinations on the inside.
I think he was quite James Toney-esque as far as inconsistency goes, but he compiled a fantastic list of wins, all the same. IMO definitely better than James Toney's list of wins, and most around these traps seem to regard him as great, even considering his inconsistency.

Let's recap Giardello's best wins; a great resume by any measure:


**** Tiger
Billy Graham
Gil Turner
Rubin Carter
Holly Mims
Ray Robinson
Del Flanagan
Rocky Rivero
Bobby Boyd
Harold Green
Bobby Jones
Tiger Jones
Walter Cartier
Henry Hank
Charley Cotton
Chico Vejar
Jesse Smith
Peter Mueller
Jimmy Beecham
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:24 PM   #1882
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
I think he was quite James Toney-esque as far as inconsistency goes, but he compiled a fantastic list of wins, all the same. IMO definitely better than James Toney's list of wins, and most around these traps seem to regard him as great, even considering his inconsistency.

Let's recap Giardello's best wins; a great resume by any measure:


**** Tiger
Billy Graham
Gil Turner
Rubin Carter
Holly Mims
Ray Robinson
Del Flanagan
Rocky Rivero
Bobby Boyd
Harold Green
Bobby Jones
Tiger Jones
Walter Cartier
Henry Hank
Charley Cotton
Chico Vejar
Jesse Smith
Peter Mueller
Jimmy Beecham
His win list is good but even taking into account only losses in his best 4 years there's still 6 losses to besmirch his resume.

On film he doesn't exactly blow your mind away with skill.

If your criteria of greatness is purely wins then I can see you calling him great.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #1883
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Benton 'whipped' him
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:54 AM   #1884
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
His win list is good but even taking into account only losses in his best 4 years there's still 6 losses to besmirch his resume.

On film he doesn't exactly blow your mind away with skill.

If your criteria of greatness is purely wins then I can see you calling him great.
I downgrade him for his lack of dominance for sure, but I'd still call him great. Less than great fighters don't accumulate such resumes.

As far as skill goes, I think he does pretty well in that department if you look at his best performances. He didn't have much int he way of speed or athleticism, and sure his defense wasn't great, but he was a master of fighting in a relaxed manner and conserving energy for the important moments in fights and was plenty accurate with his punches when he needed to be.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:23 AM   #1885
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Giardello is undoubtedly a great middleweight IMHO.

Re-watched Khaosai Galaxy Vs Israel Contreras last night. With the talk on here of Khaosai's true standing I felt it best to re-visit his, for me certainly, best win, against the horrific puncher who would go on to take Khaosai's brothers lead at 118, starching Vasquez inside a round and pummelong Espinosa, who had scored that '1st round TKO' over Khaokor

Anyway, Contreras had a monster of a right hand, and he works it in well here, dominating the early proceedings, ****ting Khaosai with an arching right cross and banging him with uppercuts to head and midsection. Khaosai struggles to get much going against, for once, a bigger guy who is also nimble.

Anyways, Khaosai steps it up when he's badly rocked and nearly stopped. Spinning out of a corner he catches the bloodthirsty Venezualan with a counter right hook that drops him and scrambles his brain.

They slug it out until Khaosai demolishes Contreras against the ropes in the next round. Considering his size (always jarring to see Khaosai outmatched in that department), power, general ability (competent) and what he achieved shortly afterwards, this would be the best win of Galaxy's career.

Would've been great to see Khaokor stick around and fight him a few years later at Bantam. Two different approaches there, and it's my linenof thinking that Contreras was a bit before his best a few lbs south of 118. He was a big super fly.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:35 AM   #1886
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Nice fight.

Khaosai sometimes fought with a bit of a disdain for opponents.

But he clearly respected Contreras' power.

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Anyways, Khaosai steps it up when he's badly rocked and nearly stopped.
Khaosai can't be stopped!

Although that uppercut on the ropes did hurt Khaosai pretty bad.

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They slug it out until Khaosai demolishes Contreras against the ropes in the next round.
By the way it seemed like the knockout blow was set up by powerful body punches/borderline low blows.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:44 AM   #1887
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Yeah, they were low not sure whether they were ******* shots or not but Israel was badly dazed from the blow to the head that floored him.

Also Should've read dropped not stopped
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:51 AM   #1888
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Yeah, they were low not sure whether they were ******* shots or not but Israel was badly dazed from the blow to the head that floored him.
Yeah, even after Contreras was counted out he still was in a bad condition for quite some time.

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Also Should've read dropped not stopped
Khaosai can't dropped!

Those were slips!
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:26 AM   #1889
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #1890
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

How come he never saught to fight roman?
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