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Old 06-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #2206
MagnaNasakki
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by rorschach51 View Post
I disagree. I saw Bradley land numerous counter shots with the jab, straight right hand and check hooks. The majority of Bradley's counters and lead punches landed were mostly to the body. However he was touching Manny's face all night with the jab, which is evidenced by the bleeding from inside his mouth he had to contend with. Bradley didn't have a mark on his face, and the only evidence he was even in a fight that night was his severely swollen feet and ankles.

Note: I would just like to point out that how each fighter looked after the fight, in no way influenced my score. But simply to point out that Bradley was landing.
It's not to say he landed nothing at all. He was just outscored decisively, almost round to round. Rarely landed in combination, and rarely reacted positively when Pacquiao's hands started moving.

I'd love to go round by round with you to see how you came up with him winning, because in the eyes of the boxing community, this is one of the worst, most egregious robberies every perpetrated. Ever.

I think it'd be educational for both of us to see what we see when we're looking at the same thing.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:50 PM   #2207
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

You may be correct, however I have watched the fight 8 times now, and out of those instances I only had 1 different score that being a draw.

The judge that scored the fight for Pacquiao had it very close at 115-113. All 3 judges saw the fight as close as it could possibly be without scoring it a draw. So what I don't understand is if all 3 judges were in agreement that it was a close fight (no-matter who they scored it for 115-113 all-around) then how does everybody scream robbery?

I can tell you from a first hand account (encountered several myself), the casual fans who only watch the big fights, felt he was robbed because HBO told them he was. If you take away the ridiculous distraction of the HBO crew and watch it, you might still have Manny winning (as I said it was close) but I guarantee you would score it a closer fight as well.

This fight was nowhere near "one of the worst robberies of all time" Whitaker vs Chavez YES Pacquiao vs Bradley a close fight and decision that went against popular opinion. Abril vs Rios & Cloud vs Campillo were terrible miscarriages of justice. Pacquiao vs Bradley just pissed off Pacquiao's millions of fans, who may be a tad bit bias.

Also there are plenty of people that came up with the same score as I did, that's just the way we saw it, hell Brian Kenny had it 116-112 for Bradley. But as I already stated it was close, if Manny did get the nod I would have felt differently. Ultimately though, as close as I felt it was I could totally understand one or two of the other judges having a different score in two of the close rounds.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:52 PM   #2208
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I'd love to go round by round with you to see how you came up with him winning, because in the eyes of the boxing community, this is one of the worst, most egregious robberies every perpetrated. Ever.

I think it'd be educational for both of us to see what we see when we're looking at the same thing.
As would I my friend.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:30 PM   #2209
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by rorschach51 View Post
You may be correct, however I have watched the fight 8 times now, and out of those instances I only had 1 different score that being a draw.

The judge that scored the fight for Pacquiao had it very close at 115-113. All 3 judges saw the fight as close as it could possibly be without scoring it a draw. So what I don't understand is if all 3 judges were in agreement that it was a close fight (no-matter who they scored it for 115-113 all-around) then how does everybody scream robbery?

I can tell you from a first hand account (encountered several myself), the casual fans who only watch the big fights, felt he was robbed because HBO told them he was. If you take away the ridiculous distraction of the HBO crew and watch it, you might still have Manny winning (as I said it was close) but I guarantee you would score it a closer fight as well.

This fight was nowhere near "one of the worst robberies of all time" Whitaker vs Chavez YES Pacquiao vs Bradley a close fight and decision that went against popular opinion. Abril vs Rios & Cloud vs Campillo were terrible miscarriages of justice. Pacquiao vs Bradley just pissed off Pacquiao's millions of fans, who may be a tad bit bias.

Also there are plenty of people that came up with the same score as I did, that's just the way we saw it, hell Brian Kenny had it 116-112 for Bradley. But as I already stated it was close, if Manny did get the nod I would have felt differently. Ultimately though, as close as I felt it was I could totally understand one or two of the other judges having a different score in two of the close rounds.
I was mainly referring to the overwhelming majority(Something like 95%) of the boxing press polled. The casual fans opinion is less than dirt in terms of informed, I agree.

I'll post a round by round some time in the coming days. Then we can debate frame by frame.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:06 PM   #2210
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I was mainly referring to the overwhelming majority(Something like 95%) of the boxing press polled. The casual fans opinion is less than dirt in terms of informed, I agree.

I'll post a round by round some time in the coming days. Then we can debate frame by frame.
Sounds good to me homey
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:18 PM   #2211
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Here is the fights I have scored over the last several months. Let me know what you think of my scores. If you disagree with any, or believe me to be crazy/blind, or blind & crazy..lets discuss;

1. MAX SCHMELING 145 | JACK SHARKEY 140
2. JOE FRAZIER 95 | OSCAR BONAVENA 93
3. JOE FRAZIER vs MUHAMMAD ALI I 144-140 FRAZIER
4. KEN NORTON vs MUHAMMAD ALI I 115-113 NORTON
5. KEN NORTON vs MUHAMMAD ALI II 116-112 ALI
6. MUHAMMAD ALI vs JOE FRAZIER II 134-131 ALI
7. RAY LEONARD 135 | WILFRED BENITEZ 130
8. RAY LEONARD vs ROBERTO DURAN I 143-142 LEONARD
9. RAY LEONARD vs ROBERTO DURAN II 70-63 LEONARD
10. THOMAS HEARNS vs RAY LEONARD I 125-121 HEARNS
11. AZUMAH NELSON vs SALVADOR SANCHEZ 133-132 NELSON
12. AARON PRYOR vs ALEXIS ARGUELLO I 124-124
13. DWIGHT BRAXTON 143 | MICHAEL SPINKS 141
14. MARVIN HAGLER 145 | ROBERTO DURAN 140
15. THOMAS HEARNS 10 | ROBERTO DURAN 7
16. DONALD CURRY 10| MILTON MCCRORY 9
17. MARVIN HAGLER 96 | JOHN MUGABI 93
18. MARCO ANTONIO BARRERA vs ERIK MORALES I 115-112 BARRERA
19. FERNANDO VARGAS 116 | IKE QUARTEY 111
20. SHANE MOSLEY vs OSCAR DE LA HOYA I 115-113 MOSLEY
21. MARCO ANTONIO BARRERA 116 | NASEEM HAMED 111
22. BERNARD HOPKINS 110 | FELIX TRINIDAD 99
23. JOEL CASAMAYOR 114 | ACELINO FREITAS 112
24. FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR. vs JOSE LUIS CASTILLO 114-113 JR.
25. MICKY WARD vs ARTURO GATTI 95-93 WARD
26. MARCO ANTONIO BARRERA vs ERIK MORALES II 116-112 BARRERA
27. OSCAR DE LA HOYA 96 | FERNANDO VARGAS 94
28. ARTURO GATTI vs MICKY WARD II 97-92 GATTI
29. MANNY PACQUIAO vs JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ I 114-111 PAC
30. ERIK MORALES vs MANNY PACQUIAO I 115-113 MORALES
31. ERIK MORALES vs MANNY PACQUIAO II 87-85 PAC
32. BERNARD HOPKINS 119 | ANTONIO TARVER 108
33. JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ vs MANNY PACQUIAO II 114-113 JMM
34. BERNARD HOPKINS 119 | KELLY PAVLIK 107
35. CARL FROCH 117 | JEAN PASCAL 112
36. ANDRE DIRRELL 115 | CARL FROCH 112
37. MANNY PACQUIAO 108 | MIGUEL COTTO 99
38. MANNY PACQUIAO 120 | JOSHUA CLOTTEY 108
39. ANDRE DIRRELL 98 | ARTHUR ABRAHAM 91
40. JOAN GUZMAN vs ALI FUNEKA II 116-111 GUZMAN
41. SERGIO MARTINEZ 115 | KELLY PAVLIK 112
42. TOMASZ ADAMEK 116 | CHRIS ARREOLA 112
43. CARL FROCH 116 | MIKKEL KESSLER 114
44. FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR. 118 | SHANE MOSLEY 112
45. PAUL WILLIAMS 38 | KERMIT CINTRON 38
46. ABNER MARES 115 | YONNHY PEREZ 113
47. JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ vs JUAN DIAZ II 118-110 JMM
48. ANDRIY KOTELNIK 116 | DEVON ALEXANDER 112
49. JEAN PASCAL 105 | CHAD DAWSON 104
50. GIOVANNI SEGURA vs IVAN CALDERON I 68-65 SEGURA
51. LUCAS MATTHYSSE 116 | ZAB JUDAH 111
52. MANNY PACQUIAO 120 | ANTONIO MARGARITO 108
53. JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ 76 | MICHAEL KATSIDIS 75
54. HUMBERTO SOTO 114 | URBANO ANTILLON 112
55. LAMONT PETERSON 94 | VICTOR ORTIZ 94
56. MARCOS MAIDANA 113 | AMIR KHAN 113
57. MIKE JONES vs JESUS SOTO KARASS II 117-111 JONES
58. JORGE ARCE 104 | WILFREDO VAZQUEZ JR. 104
59. MANNY PACQUIAO 119 | SHANE MOSLEY 108
60. ABNER MARES vs JOSEPH AGBEKO I 115-111 MARES
61. BREIDIS PRESCOTT 87 | MIKE ALVARADO 84
62. JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ vs MANNY PACQUIAO III 116-112 JMM
63. ANSELMO MORENO 118 | VIC DARCHINYAN 109
64. LAMONT PETERSON 113 | AMIR KHAN 112
65. NONITO DONAIRE 117 | WILFREDO VAZQUEZ JR. 110
66. MARCO HUCK 114 | ALEXANDER POVETKIN 114
67. RICHARD ABRIL 117 | BRANDON RIOS 111
68. ABNER MARES 118 | ERIC MOREL 110
69. CHAD DAWSON vs BERNARD HOPKINS II 117-111 DAWSON
70. PAULIE MALIGNAGGI 79 | VYACHESLAV SENCHENKO 73
71. FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR. 117 | MIGUEL COTTO 111
72. SAUL ALVAREZ 118 | SHANE MOSLEY 110
73. CARL FROCH 39 | LUCIAN BUTE 36
74. ANTONIO TARVER 114 | LATEEF KAYODE 114
75. PETER QUILLIN 97 | WINKY WRIGHT 92
76. AUSTIN TROUT 116 | DELVIN RODRIGUEZ 112
77. GUILLERMO RIGONDEAUX 50 | TEON KENNEDY 40
78. TIMOTHY BRADLEY 115 | MANNY PACQUIAO 113
79. JESUS ROJAS 9 | JORGE ARCE 9
80. MIKE JONES 105 | RANDALL BAILEY 102
81. JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ JR. 58 | ANDY LEE 56
82. MIKE JONES vs JESUS SOTO KARASS II 97-92 KARASS
83. TIMOTHY BRADLEY 98 | 92 DEVON ALEXANDER

That's all I kept record of since mid April.

Last edited by rorschach51; 06-21-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:45 AM   #2212
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley
1st rd might b argued as a Bradley rd .
10th a Pac rd whereas rds 4,8,9 cud also b argued 4 Pac .
forced popular score 119-116 Pacquiao . safe score 120-119 Pacquiao .
D thing is neither man won any rd big . A draw might not have been a robbery 4 me , but Bradley did not deserve 2 win it .
Bradley used n elbow at least 1ce and some well disguised headbutts (he tried but i guess Freddie did a good job in preparing Pacquiao 4 it)
Pacquiao initiated most of d Xchanges and came 4ward more although Bradley backed him up on times as well .
I think if Pacquiao had been only slightly busier and more aggressive he would have clearly deserved it , not that I claim that Bradley deserved it .
Not a bad fight as a fight if not taking d judges' verdict in2 consideration .
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:31 AM   #2213
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Tony Thompson TKO3 Maurice Harris .
A mediocre per4mance by Thompson and a mediocre taking a dive by Harris .
Y he did it , IDK , of course he got paid 4 it , but Y wasn't Thompson paid 4 taking a dive against him ? I guess d commercial sense underlying it is beyond me @ d moment .
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #2214
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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That's the thing with Marvin though isn't it? Everyone uses the slowed reflexes version of the Hearns/Mugabi/Leonard and not the guy that had those real good legs. He had a very nice set of wheels and really did a masterful job with his angles back then. And he threw darts in there and not the wide hooks. Hagler from the waist down back then was a very very impressive fighter. When those legs went, he was no longer at that optimal position where he kept guys at the end of his punches. In that timeframe, he seemed to land everything at about 90% arm extension and he'd move poeple and those follow up punches of his did not ever seem to hit air or force him off balance.
Yep yep! I agree completely. Briscoe fight displays Hagler as a mover too. Many forgot he used to be one as well as Wright he changed his style too.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:13 AM   #2215
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Tony Thompson TKO3 Maurice Harris .
A mediocre per4mance by Thompson and a mediocre taking a dive by Harris .
Y he did it , IDK , of course he got paid 4 it , but Y wasn't Thompson paid 4 taking a dive against him ? I guess d commercial sense underlying it is beyond me @ d moment .
Cause it wasn't a dive.

Two heavyweights nobody cares about, one good, one not, one got his ass kicked.

Nobody would pay a guy to quit in a meaningless fight like that. Thompson, the favorite, and the title contender, didn't need any help.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:32 AM   #2216
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Cause it wasn't a dive.

Two heavyweights nobody cares about, one good, one not, one got his ass kicked.

Nobody would pay a guy to quit in a meaningless fight like that. Thompson, the favorite, and the title contender, didn't need any help.
Quote:
IBF Heavyweight Title Eliminator for #2 Spot
(scheduled 4 12 rds)

is not Xactly a meaningless fight by contemporary standards .
Thompson could have lost his title shot @ Wladimir .
Like Ferguson vs Mercer .
This fight may b meaningless on n all time scale but was important commercially . It looked like Harris was trying 2 look trying 2 fight while in fact he tried n not look like taking a dive which he did . Harris is really not as bad as he looked in this fight especially not against fighters of Thompson's level .
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:53 AM   #2217
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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(scheduled 4 12 rds)

is not Xactly a meaningless fight by contemporary standards .
Thompson could have lost his title shot @ Wladimir .
Like Ferguson vs Mercer .
This fight may b meaningless on n all time scale but was important commercially . It looked like Harris was trying 2 look trying 2 fight while in fact he tried n not look like taking a dive which he did . Harris is really not as bad as he looked in this fight especially not against fighters of Thompson's level .
Maurice Harris is a level below Tony Thompson, who is one of the best heavyweights alive.

And he always has been.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:07 AM   #2218
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Maurice Harris is a level below Tony Thompson, who is one of the best heavyweights alive.

And he always has been.
Thompson might b somewhat better than Harris but Harris certainly did not look like trying 2 win 2 me .
Do u think Roy Jones would have occupied him as a sparing partner if he really was that bad ? And Thompson certainly did not look impressive 2 me , but 1 of d best heavyweights alive might b arguable , as it's open 2 definition and discussion .
I believe that I could fight at least better than Harris fought in this fight at least though due 2 size considerations i would have came even shorter against Thompson . And I don't really think that Harris is genuinely that bad , he just "fought" that bad in this fight .
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #2219
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Josesito Lopez- Jessie Vargas

Was going more for Lopez but overall I just liked his more impactful punches and him backing Vargas up seemingly controlling the pace of the fight. Many of Vargas shots were hitting gloves but he just looked too uncomfortable for me to consider him dictating how the fight was going. A good activity vs impact fight but Lopez was making him back up throughout the fight landing the crisper shots anyways. Workrate hurt Lopez too much to consider this a robbery and it’s too subjective of a fight to say it is one. Vargas’ negativity and lack of respectful power against Lopez hurt him too. Good fight but painful to score

95-94 Vargas
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:21 PM   #2220
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