the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

[rorschach51]

EMILE GRIFFITH v.s. BENNY PARET III 106-102 TKO 12 GRIFFITH

EG v.s. BKP
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
8-10
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by rorschach51

MARVIN HAGLER 116 | 113 RAY LEONARD

MMH vs SRL
9-10
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
10-10

Still to this day, THE finest job of anybody convincing the crowd, which in turn I can only assume convinced the judges he was winning. With all his flash and showboating, using his hand speed to mystify everyone into thinking this was not only a close fight, but that he won....The only rounds he won without question were the first 2 Hagler was fighting orthodox in, and the 6th. The rest was Leonard pulling the wool over the judges eyes. Marvin won 7 rounds convincingly, with the last round being even, despite all the running and showboating in the final round by Ray, he barley did enough actual work to make that round even. Just a despicable outcome, in which Hagler was truly robbed by a total acting job, and I really can't blame him for walking away forever after such a total betrayal.

Still aggravates the shit out of me to this day, 7 rounds too 4 with 1 even, or 116-113 Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

I think you're giving Marv a bit too much credit there, mate. I honestly couldn't envision giving the Marvelous one seven rounds, as much as I love him. After scoring this bout I ended up with a 114-114 result. Dead even.

Hagler truly and utterly fucked himself in the first couple of rounds by not doing enough work and turning orthodox. If he'd just fought his ass off from the start, it was very much a winnable fight.

[orriray59]

Mayweather Castillo
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
9-10
9-10
9-9
10-9
9-9
9-10
9-10

113-113

That's my scorecard for the first Mayweather-Castillo bout. 113-113, draw. I was a bit generous to Floyd, though. Could easily have given Castillo a 10-8 round instead of 9-9, and I could find another round that you could give JLC. Thought he should have retained the title.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by orriray59

I think you're giving Marv a bit too much credit there, mate. I honestly couldn't envision giving the Marvelous one seven rounds, as much as I love him. After scoring this bout I ended up with a 114-114 result. Dead even.

Hagler truly and utterly fucked himself in the first couple of rounds by not doing enough work and turning orthodox. If he'd just fought his ass off from the start, it was very much a winnable fight.

I agree. I can see it 115-113 either way or a draw...but on recent viewings I find I give Ray the edge.

It hurts me to do it but just as I give lofty and IMO undeserved rankings I also have to admit that Ray Leonard defeated Marvin Hagler. Even if I don't particularly like the tactics he implemented. Under the rules of boxing, he won. Sorta'.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

I agree. I can see it 115-113 either way or a draw...but on recent viewings I find I give Ray the edge.

It hurts me to do it but just as I give lofty and IMO undeserved rankings I also have to admit that Ray Leonard defeated Marvin Hagler. Even if I don't particularly like the tactics he implemented. Under the rules of boxing, he won. Sorta'.

I once heard a theory on YouTube that the colors of Leonard's trunks made him standout more, or something along those lines. Hence the judges scoring for him.

[Flea Man]

Ray's output was flashier, quicker hands and making a show of it, triumphant return, I can see why it was scored in his favour. EDIT: In no way do I think something was up with the judges or scorecards. Not a robbery or anything like it, Leonard won.

It's the perfect narrative really unless you're a fan of Hagler, then it's painful.

[Drew101]

Amado Ursua KO2 Hilario Zapata

Pretty good pace to start the fight, in a manner that I didn't expect to see. Zapata was the one coming forward stalking his shorter foe and attempting to strafe him with combinations, and Ursua staying back and winging rights whenever an unusally aggressive Zapata got too close. Panterita did a good job of getting under Zapata's attacks in the first, and landed with a couple of glancing blows but Hilario starts to find his range in the last 30 seconds to so and lands just enough to take the round on my card. 10-9 Zapata

And then the second round begins and things go fucking crazy.

Shortly after the round begins, Ursua catches Zapata coming in with a big right hand, and then a follow-up hook deposits him onto the seat of his trunks. Zapata rises, and Ursua rumbles forward, winging wide punches and looking for the finish. But it's Zapata who lands the big punch, dropping Ursua onto his haunches with a sweet hook for an uncredited KD. Ursua rises but is still hurt, and Zapata spends the 30-45 seconds beating him around the ring. Ursua lands another huge right, forcing Zapata to hold on , but Amada still appears to be in rough shape, especially after Zapata nails him with a nasty rabbit punch. Ursua backs up, and Zapata storms forward...only to run into a sick, sick right hand that drops him onto his back for the picturesque KO.

Stupid fight from Hilario, but it made for quite the spectacle, I must say. Round 2 of this fight gets added to my list of favorite stanzas of all time.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by rorschach51

MARVIN HAGLER 116 | 113 RAY LEONARD

MMH vs SRL
9-10
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
10-10

Still to this day, THE finest job of anybody convincing the crowd, which in turn I can only assume convinced the judges he was winning. With all his flash and showboating, using his hand speed to mystify everyone into thinking this was not only a close fight, but that he won....The only rounds he won without question were the first 2 Hagler was fighting orthodox in, and the 6th. The rest was Leonard pulling the wool over the judges eyes. Marvin won 7 rounds convincingly, with the last round being even, despite all the running and showboating in the final round by Ray, he barley did enough actual work to make that round even. Just a despicable outcome, in which Hagler was truly robbed by a total acting job, and I really can't blame him for walking away forever after such a total betrayal.

Still aggravates the shit out of me to this day, 7 rounds too 4 with 1 even, or 116-113 Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

personally can't see giving rounds 3 and 4 to hagler but to each his own

[Drew101]

Originally Posted by orriray59

Mayweather Castillo
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
9-10
9-10
9-9
10-9
9-9
9-10
9-10

113-113

That's my scorecard for the first Mayweather-Castillo bout. 113-113, draw. I was a bit generous to Floyd, though. Could easily have given Castillo a 10-8 round instead of 9-9, and I could find another round that you could give JLC. Thought he should have retained the title.

That was my initial score, but recently I find myself giving the fight to Floyd. I give him the first 5, 9, and 11. I used to give five to Castillo, but I still think Floyd was controlling the way the contest was being fought at that point. 11 features good two way action, but Floyd tends to land the cleaner shots, and gets it on my card. Not a robbery or gift decision. While I think a case could be made for scoring it in JLC's favor, Mayweather's case seems a bit stronger to me at this point.

[Flea Man]

Ursua was a monster puncher.

[frankenfrank]

Eder Jofre vs Jose Medel #1 (Jofre KO10) , d rematch is missing .

Good fight with parts of long range "boxing" and parts short range "infighting" .

Jofre did bending from d waist down whenever he feels that his opponent can make a move/attack .

If I scored it then i would have had Jofre leading prior 2d stoppage but not by much .

At some point d referee had 2 restore Jofre's laces 2 how they should b .
Do not know how much effect it had on d fight and i do not mean as a timeout but rather by how much it effected Medel's vision .

[frankenfrank]

Eddie Cook KO5 Israel Contreras

Cook boxed , retreated and threw combinations from time 2 time until he caught Contreras with a good straight left which moved him backwards 2d ropes where Cook finished him with a right hook .

[Flea Man]

I think there is footage of Jofre-Medel II.

[rorschach51]

Originally Posted by orriray59

I think you're giving Marv a bit too much credit there, mate. I honestly couldn't envision giving the Marvelous one seven rounds, as much as I love him. After scoring this bout I ended up with a 114-114 result. Dead even.

Hagler truly and utterly fucked himself in the first couple of rounds by not doing enough work and turning orthodox. If he'd just fought his ass off from the start, it was very much a winnable fight.

I see where you are coming from, but what I find questioning is how you cannot conceive giving Hagler 7 rounds, when you yourself gave him 6. Is it really that hard to envision myself scoring 7 rounds to Marvin, when you had 1 round fewer for him?

The first 2 rounds and the 6th were absolutely Leonard's rounds, the 11th was close, but I felt Ray did enough to convincingly take it. Beyond that it was all smoke and mirrors from Sugar Ray, and it didn't help that everyone in that arena not only bought it all hook, line & sinker but that they all wanted Ray's comeback to be a success. Hagler despite giving away the first 2 rounds (something to which I still don't understand why he did it) put in his usual workman like performance. Landed the clearly harder shots, stunning and even hurting Ray on a few occasions. Marvin's shots were moving Leonard, while nothing Ray ever did had any effect on Hagler. What never really gets talked about is, for all Ray's flashy flurry attacks, the vast majority was either blocked by Hagler or missed altogether. The nostalgia of seeing Ray do his thing (no matter how ineffective) and spectacle of it all (the movement and speed shoe-shining) is what was scored.

I favor Hagler's work, and that Ray's offense was largely ineffective, over The Sugar Ray show, in which the same thing happened in the Hearns rematch. Unless you're gonna tell me that was really a draw, and Tommy wasn't gypped out of his victory and redemption.

[rorschach51]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Ray's output was flashier, quicker hands and making a show of it, triumphant return, I can see why it was scored in his favour. EDIT: In no way do I think something was up with the judges or scorecards. Not a robbery or anything like it, Leonard won.

It's the perfect narrative really unless you're a fan of Hagler, then it's painful.

I see what you are saying Flea, I really do, and I understand why the fight was awarded to Ray. However I never agree with awarding flash and nostalgia over substance and quality. Imo, Hagler giving away the first 2 rounds is what really hurt him, as they were the deciding rounds for the judges that scored it 115-113 for Leonard. The judge that scored it 118-110 for Ray, should have been dragged outback, and let Ajax deal with as he saw fit