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Old 01-11-2012, 01:42 PM   #1381
Vic-JofreBRASIL
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Chitalada vs Chang II

Chitalada - 1, 2 and 10
Chang - 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11


Round 12 even.....Chitalada lost a point.....

This is a robbery !!
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:24 PM   #1382
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
Chitalada vs Chang II

Chitalada - 1, 2 and 10
Chang - 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11


Round 12 even.....Chitalada lost a point.....

This is a robbery !!
Funnily enough I uploaded this to youtube the other week, and in the description it says how it's a robbery! Terrible decision...in Korea!
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:20 PM   #1383
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

just watched Saldivar-Shibata round 9 and onwards, what a fight! Gonna have to watch the first 8 rounds tonight now.
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:57 PM   #1384
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Funnily enough I uploaded this to youtube the other week, and in the description it says how it's a robbery! Terrible decision...in Korea!
Yeah, lol....Certainly that´s crazy....a Korean hero being robbed in Korea !!??!!
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #1385
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by El Bujia View Post
Speaking of the Duran around that time period, how did you guys see the Thompson fight? I think Thompson's performance gets completely overblown. So Duran got a rib blown, he still dominated the fight in super-impressive fashion, the way I saw it. Some truly amazing offensive sequences for Duran in that one.

Cervantes did a job on Thompson as well, even though I'd heard differently prior to actually viewing it. Seems he gets the benefit of the doubt a lot.
The concerns of Arcel seemed to have help romanticize this fight a bit.

Hector is a beloved fighter down here and sometimes us aussies prefer not to let the truth get in the way of a good yarn.. just like anyone else really when remembering their heroes.

As for the Cervantes fight, havent seen it in a while but I do think it shows Hector's class...both in respect to his clear ability but also the fact he was several levels below the best of the time.
When they were circling each other and dueling with jabs it was a pretty even fight...Hec had a good counter jab but I think Cervantes' ranginess kept it from being all that effective ..When Antonio opened up the right, thats when he really asserted himself..The 1-1-2 hammered Thompson a few times from memory and eventually busted him up.
There is no way that fight was close on the cards at the time of the stoppage...would have been great to see it go a few more rounds but seeing the pattern of the fight up until then and given the fact Antonio was always great in the last 1/3, it would have just ended up being a clearer win for Cervantes.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #1386
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Right now , Witherspoon 120-118 Thomas , Witherspoon won d 1st 2 rds , d rest were even .
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:50 PM   #1387
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Lennox Lewis SD Ray Mercer

This is a really weird good fight with Lennox Lewis in the pocket swapping uppercuts (maybe in wee dress rehersal for Klitschko) but sometimes being outjabbed by a relative dwarf. Mercer's jab was a threat throughout, as was his bungling lunging style and his swarming attacks. On occasion these swarming attacks had Lewis in a spot of bother and he looks dog tired after just such a spell in the sixth, but Mercer perhaps saves him some serious bother by gassing all the more dramatically.

Round 4 is one of my favourite HW rounds with Lewis showing what he was so capable of but in a future echo of his immediate lineage, reluctunce to do it, devastating and elastic combinations and some really genuinely nice bodywork, which he had to can due to an aggressive and ill-judged warning from the awful Mercante Jnr about low blows.

For all the bluster and hubub surrounding this fight, I didn't have it that close with round 4 as the real turning point, Mercer is willing but his mind just refuses to sign off on the cheque his body needs to write to take the win. The desperate air surrounding the fight is perhaps more about the circumstances the two men find themselves in - Mercer one poor effort away from being put out to pasture, Lewis one loss away from a return to the UK - that lends it that feeling, that and the contradictory but exhorting rambles Steward offers up in the Lewis corner.

Lewis understandably bemoanded the size of the ring, and it's fair to say that a bigger ring brings a cleaner result, but he would later admit this fight did him a "world of good". Must be nice to find out you have heart, and even if the test has subsequently been overstated, Lennox certainly passed.

LEWIS: 3,4,6,7,8,9,10

MERCER 1,2,5.

I thought 3 and 5 were the only really arguable rounds, and they got one each.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:55 PM   #1388
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Just got done with Benitez-Palomino. I'd seen it once, but never scored it. looking at it in my own judge impersonation, i had it.........

Benitez: 1,2,3,6,7,8,9,11,14
Palomino: 4,10,12,13,15
Even: 5


145-140, Benitez.


Palomino was a good, fundamentally sound fighter, but Benitez just had that extra something that let you know he was on a different level. Most of the rounds were tense, fairly hotly-contested affairs, but Benitez was just sharper and the better ring general.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:52 PM   #1389
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Evander Holyfield UD10 Ray Mercer
Freaky Mercer somehow finds himself in another crossroads fight with another of boxing's legends. Both were on the comeback trail, Holyfield from heart troubles, Mercer from nowhere, and once again with his back to the wall and a (possibly still) terrifying propostition stood in front of him turns in another great perfromance.

And it's another twilight-zone occasion as Mercer out-jabs Holyfield for stretches, even in rounds he loses, tipping out thudding no nonsense shots at an opponent who looks the part but probably hasn't found his complete rthym yet. When he doubled it up, he looked genuinely dangerous at times, as in the second and third both of which he won on my card.

Holyfield was pretty smart about it though, not jabbing to much with his opponent, mixing up his offense in headhunting pretty convincingly, although he doesn't go to the body as much as Lewis did, which is dissappointing. His left hook was especially impressive, and he actually drops Mercer for eight in the 8th, which is one of those pivotal rounds in so many different ways. First of all, Mercer was hammering Holyfield in that round, it was the clearest cut round of the fight, he was convincingly ahead. Behind on the cards but having won round seven it was starting to look like something of a comeback. Unfortunately for him, he had cut Evander in the previous round and the referee unneccessarily decided the doctor needed to have a look at it. After the doctor looked at the cut, Mercer tried to coast, moving, throwing very tentative punches and Holyfield seized his moment like the great champion he is and two picture perfect clipping left hooks to the jaw forced Mercer back where he either took a voluntary knee to avoid the brutal bowling ball scything right for his 1 pin, or involunatry took a knee because Holyfield had landed two really crisp hurtful punches. Opinions vary, and it was likey a mixture of both anyway.

Regardless, Ray gave up at that point, and what would have been a tied fight at 4-4 took a three point swing in Evander's favour. Mercer surrendered the last two rounds pitifully, allowing Holyfield to streat off. Would Mercer have closed it out had he won the 8th? Impossible to be sure, but for a winner to be named on my card, one or the other would have had to have won both remaining rounds. I'd bet on Holyfield but all the momentum would have been with Ray. An interesting one to ponder.

Not as good as the Lewis fight, but an interesting little duel.


MERCER: 2,3,7
HOLYFIELD 1,4,5,6,8,9,10.

Last edited by McGrain; 01-14-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #1390
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
Chitalada vs Chang II

Chitalada - 1, 2 and 10
Chang - 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11

Round 12 even.....Chitalada lost a point.....

This is a robbery !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Funnily enough I uploaded this to youtube the other week, and in the description it says how it's a robbery! Terrible decision...in Korea!
I got to go ahead and disagree with you gents. I didn't think it was a robbery at all.

Sot's boxing in the first two rounds reminds me weirdly enough of Lennox Lewis, cautious, jabbing style kind of inexplicable in the light of his physical advantages, augmented by a thudding right hand to the body that speaks to his reach, timing and ambition (As well as his opponents possible limitations...) but I certainly don't have Change "taking over" when the fight gets grubbier. Why does the fight get grubbier? Sot's thudding jab score's points for him throughout the fight in patches, it's not as if Change "solved" it or anything, it's honestly like Chang just starts walking up to him and whacking him sometimes, and Chitalada lets him, then Chang rides the crest of momentum his attacks/shots bring.

Chang definitely won the third, but I think Chitalada stole the 4th and 5th mainly due to his consistent bodywork, which he again, inexplicably abandons in the face of an opponent who is often open wide in that area. Chang's strategy is exactly right for a lunatic but I do like watching him make Chitalada miss outside, and would have liked to have seen more of it.

Like you VJ, I score Chitalada only the 10th and 12th on my card in the second half of the fight, and in the ninth it even looked like he might go for a second, but I have them dead even in rounds. The deduction is the only thing that puts Chang ahead for me, and it was bull****. I think Chitalada may have been marginally the rougher of the two but it's not by much, Chang leads with the head to the chest, higher, rugby tackles at the waist a couple of times, and just up and throws himself into Chitalada on one or two occasions. In the last, the referee seperates them and he actually looks like he tries to fall straight back in with his head.

To me, Chitalda is often just protecting himself with reactive fouls, heeling and leaning and the deduction itself for pushing...it's not like he bodily picked Chang up and cast him to the floor, he just pushed him off. It was a rough fight, and if Chang got out-roughed in the last, tough. Anyway.

CHANG: 1,2,4,5,10,12
CHITALADA: 3,6,7,8,9,11

114-113 Chang.

Should've been a draw IMO.

Thanks for the upload Flea.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:51 PM   #1391
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Interesting McGrain....I can´t remember very well the rounds 4 and 5.....but if they´re close, then call it a robbery it is an exaggeration from my part.....because these two rounds would change my scorecard then......and would make a close fight for me as well....
I will watch it again sometime.....especially rounds 4 and 5, seemingly they are decisive rounds....
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:41 AM   #1392
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Joe Calzaghe SD12 Bernard Hopkins.

This is such an interesting and strangely compelling fight between two really accomplished, clever fighters. I really like watching this fight and I think that the ebbs and flows are as interesting as a fight between a slapping swarmer and a knackered old man could ever be.

Hopkins starts beautifully and I gave him the first three rounds, sneaky right hands off the ropes, slipping and smothering Joe's confused rushes but it is always noticable to me how many steps he is taking in these early rounds. Hopkins said something before the fight about holding the middle of the ring and I understand why. I don't want to second guess one of the sharpest fighters of my generation so I'll just say that exploring holding the centre of the ring is something he maybe should have looked into? Calzaghe, for his part, is not a stalker, he's a swarmer but he stalks reasonably well here early. Stalkers always take fewer steps in comparison to their prey and Hopkins can't afford that - but out of marching and punching he seems to want to choose marching. OK, i'll go with him on that and say the plan was right, and the walkabout - which definitely tired him - couldn't be helped.

The problem is, Calzaghe is a really clever fighter and shows good subtle adjustments. He shows a great one here. This fight has great footwork. Great, great footwork and what Calzaghe does is he starts to box with perfect, perfect discipline of his front foot. He takes three rounds to get his range judged and when he gets hit judged, watch, because he doesn't come into Bernard's sphere of influence without a punch, without some sort of controlling action. Hopkins' controlling influeces are extremely limited here. He has the head and he has a straight right hand and he has his footwork in retreat. Only one of these attributes is scoring. So he's got problems, because as soon as Calzaghe is in control of the delivery from his toepoint, Hopkins is going to be limited. This isn't because of his limitations as a fighter, but because he can't afford to flurry with Joe - something he's drawn into more and more as the fight progresses - because he is so firmly and totally out-sped.

Combined with this is Bernard's inevitable fatigue. Punching more than he wants to punch, moving more than he wants to move and being hit more than he was ever hit in any fight makes him tired at 43. He starts to slow which is definitely a factor in Calzaghe's taking control.

But Calzaghe is the general, the boss here.

Still, very little happens in these middle rounds to inarguably distinguish either fighter. However it's also inarguable that Calzaghe is throwing more, landing more and is fighting as the aggressor. Basically, there are more reasons to score him these rounds than not.

Hopkins looks desperate to me in the ninth, and his desperation outed with the histrionics in the 10th. Yes, they are embarrassing, but in the 8th Calzaghe began to make a mark with his jab. His jab is oft attacked concerning this fight, but where is Bernard's? It is a total non-factor. Calzaghe's jab is in danger of finishing Bernard's bris once and for all eight through nine. I'm not excusing what Hopkins did with the play acting, but the rest he caught in 10 combined with the flustered frustration in Joe's boxing through that round scored him the 10-9, and he needed it badly. Needs must.

I actually scored Hopkins the 11th also, though this may be a little generous. It also meant that Calzaghe absolutely needed the 12th on my card, but he was able to box in a much more relaxed style than in the two rounds beforehand to close out what I would tentatively suggest is one of the last decades more underated fights.


CALZAGHE: 4,5,6,7,8,,9,12
HOPKINS: 1,2,3,10,11

114-113 CALZAGHE.



Incidently, this one's on YT in pristene HD for anyone who likes to do this sort of thing at their computers. Much loves.

Last edited by McGrain; 01-16-2012 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:39 AM   #1393
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

That's how I had Calzaghe-Hop.

Chitalada allowed himself to be outbudtled by Chang IMO. One performance where you could really tell the Thai was weight drained.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:38 PM   #1394
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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I got to go ahead and disagree with you gents. I didn't think it was a robbery at all.

Sot's boxing in the first two rounds reminds me weirdly enough of Lennox Lewis, cautious, jabbing style kind of inexplicable in the light of his physical advantages, augmented by a thudding right hand to the body that speaks to his reach, timing and ambition (As well as his opponents possible limitations...) but I certainly don't have Change "taking over" when the fight gets grubbier. Why does the fight get grubbier? Sot's thudding jab score's points for him throughout the fight in patches, it's not as if Change "solved" it or anything, it's honestly like Chang just starts walking up to him and whacking him sometimes, and Chitalada lets him, then Chang rides the crest of momentum his attacks/shots bring.

Chang definitely won the third, but I think Chitalada stole the 4th and 5th mainly due to his consistent bodywork, which he again, inexplicably abandons in the face of an opponent who is often open wide in that area. Chang's strategy is exactly right for a lunatic but I do like watching him make Chitalada miss outside, and would have liked to have seen more of it.

Like you VJ, I score Chitalada only the 10th and 12th on my card in the second half of the fight, and in the ninth it even looked like he might go for a second, but I have them dead even in rounds. The deduction is the only thing that puts Chang ahead for me, and it was bull****. I think Chitalada may have been marginally the rougher of the two but it's not by much, Chang leads with the head to the chest, higher, rugby tackles at the waist a couple of times, and just up and throws himself into Chitalada on one or two occasions. In the last, the referee seperates them and he actually looks like he tries to fall straight back in with his head.

To me, Chitalda is often just protecting himself with reactive fouls, heeling and leaning and the deduction itself for pushing...it's not like he bodily picked Chang up and cast him to the floor, he just pushed him off. It was a rough fight, and if Chang got out-roughed in the last, tough. Anyway.

CHANG: 1,2,4,5,10,12
CHITALADA: 3,6,7,8,9,11

114-113 Chang.

Should've been a draw IMO.

Thanks for the upload Flea.
You guys peaked my interest with this discussion. I watched it and scored it a draw. **** Padilla for that point deduction. I'm going to add this fight to McGrain's thread about fights that should have highlights so you don't have to watch the whole thing. Just and ugly, ugly fight. I don't think Chang landed enough clean shots throughout to call this a robbery, but the outcome is a bit surprising given he had home field advantage.
I have to say, I've only to this point watched highlights of Chang. Are some of his other fights a little easier on the eyes? If so, which ones?
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:41 PM   #1395
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p.s. Flea, I greatly appreciate the upload and it certainly increased my knowledge of these guys. But man, they made an ugly fight.
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