the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

[lora]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Joe Calzaghe SD12 Bernard Hopkins.

This is such an interesting and strangely compelling fight between two really accomplished, clever fighters. I really like watching this fight and I think that the ebbs and flows are as interesting as a fight between a slapping swarmer and a knackered old man could ever be.

Hopkins starts beautifully and I gave him the first three rounds, sneaky right hands off the ropes, slipping and smothering Joe's confused rushes but it is always noticable to me how many steps he is taking in these early rounds. Hopkins said something before the fight about holding the middle of the ring and I understand why. I don't want to second guess one of the sharpest fighters of my generation so I'll just say that exploring holding the centre of the ring is something he maybe should have looked into? Calzaghe, for his part, is not a stalker, he's a swarmer but he stalks reasonably well here early. Stalkers always take fewer steps in comparison to their prey and Hopkins can't afford that - but out of marching and punching he seems to want to choose marching. OK, i'll go with him on that and say the plan was right, and the walkabout - which definitely tired him - couldn't be helped.

The problem is, Calzaghe is a really clever fighter and shows good subtle adjustments. He shows a great one here. This fight has great footwork. Great, great footwork and what Calzaghe does is he starts to box with perfect, perfect discipline of his front foot. He takes three rounds to get his range judged and when he gets hit judged, watch, because he doesn't come into Bernard's sphere of influence without a punch, without some sort of controlling action. Hopkins' controlling influeces are extremely limited here. He has the head and he has a straight right hand and he has his footwork in retreat. Only one of these attributes is scoring. So he's got problems, because as soon as Calzaghe is in control of the delivery from his toepoint, Hopkins is going to be limited. This isn't because of his limitations as a fighter, but because he can't afford to flurry with Joe - something he's drawn into more and more as the fight progresses - because he is so firmly and totally out-sped.

Combined with this is Bernard's inevitable fatigue. Punching more than he wants to punch, moving more than he wants to move and being hit more than he was ever hit in any fight makes him tired at 43. He starts to slow which is definitely a factor in Calzaghe's taking control.

But Calzaghe is the general, the boss here.

Still, very little happens in these middle rounds to inarguably distinguish either fighter. However it's also inarguable that Calzaghe is throwing more, landing more and is fighting as the aggressor. Basically, there are more reasons to score him these rounds than not.

Hopkins looks desperate to me in the ninth, and his desperation outed with the histrionics in the 10th. Yes, they are embarrassing, but in the 8th Calzaghe began to make a mark with his jab. His jab is oft attacked concerning this fight, but where is Bernard's? It is a total non-factor. Calzaghe's jab is in danger of finishing Bernard's bris once and for all eight through nine. I'm not excusing what Hopkins did with the play acting, but the rest he caught in 10 combined with the flustered frustration in Joe's boxing through that round scored him the 10-9, and he needed it badly. Needs must.

I actually scored Hopkins the 11th also, though this may be a little generous. It also meant that Calzaghe absolutely needed the 12th on my card, but he was able to box in a much more relaxed style than in the two rounds beforehand to close out what I would tentatively suggest is one of the last decades more underated fights.


CALZAGHE: 4,5,6,7,8,,9,12
HOPKINS: 1,2,3,10,11

114-113 CALZAGHE.



Incidently, this one's on YT in pristene HD for anyone who likes to do this sort of thing at their computers. Much loves.

great post, but fuck that, one of the worst fights of all-time i tell you.

[McGrain]

...i thought it was fun.

[Flea Man]

I like Calzaghe-Hopkins, it's a battle of feet. Not one I re-watch every six months, but I've watched it twice excluding when I watched it live.

Certainly no LMR-McClure.

[lora]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu6HzoxL2Vc[/ame]

Watch this masterpiece

[Flea Man]

I'm on me iPhone....what is it?

[lora]

Masashi Kudo vs Manuel Ricardo Gonzalez II

[Flea Man]

Minimalistic offensive masterclass I imagine.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Reggie Johnson vs Lamar Parks

Reggie Johnson- 1, 2, 3, 6, 11, 12

Lamar Parks- 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10

6-6, DRAW in my opinion......

[McGrain]

Rubin Carter SD10 George Benton

Full of surprises this one. First up, Carter's jab is right on point, a wilful punch he looks like he probably throws in his sleep, which is a little odd. He out-jabs Benton for stretches stepping in firmly behind the punch so you know it's a stinger, although as often as not he's doing it to close the distance and get in close. Benton looks quite comfortable here. This in part is the other surprise, just how strong Benton looks. As noted in commentary, "Carter has muscles he hasn't even flexed yet!" but Benton, willowy by comparison, is at no point out-muscled and a couple of times he pushes Carter off without trouble, also walking him headfirst out of a corner at one point.

Another interesting thing was how conservatively Carter boxed. The only punch he really swung with was the left hook, he sort of lunged in with it as an alternative to the jab on occasion, and although he didn't have much luck he generally was allowed to close the distance. This conservative pace allowed him to rally towards the end of the fight and survive a difficult moment or two, at least in part. Carter generally looked the veteran here, holding cleverly, boxing carefully and punching cleverly with Benton after he missed, not allowing himself to be countered out of rounds. This was probably absolutely key, as it throws Benton off a bit and Carter banked the first two rounds. Benton would find his countering distance in the middle rounds somewhat, but here too Carter looked quite clever, banging to the body or covering up.

His defence was good too, high guard, decent head movement, he slipped his fair share and when you are throwing more that's a real bonus in a tight fight. It's easier to give the man who throws more the really tight rounds, and there are a few here:

CARTER: 1,2,6,9,10
BENTON: 3,5,7,8
EVEN: 4

After winning the 7th huge, Benton comes out and grabs the 8th too, and with things all square and Carter looking less than interested after the thrashing he took in 7, the momentum seems all with Benton. Carter boxed and fought back beautifully though and nicked it in a thrilling tenth. Carter starts violently and looks like he's going to try to cruise. It's so frustrating watching Benton wait, wait, but he finds his gap landing a beautiful three punch combo ending in a right down the pipe which staggers Carter a bit. It seems to justify Benton's philsophy but in the final minute a disaster, and Carter lands his own bomb staggering Benton even worse than he had been hurt himself. The damage is done and Carter the winner.

Reading Flea's rather smashing article on Benton, I think it's pretty clear that this is the one Benton didn't want to lose. He was 2nd going in, Carter was 8th. It's a shot-making kinda fight. It's so close aswell that I kind of felt a tug on occasion to silp a round to Benton where he didn't deserve one - I might even have done this, Benton is pretty extraordinary in many regards, but the 5th of this fight is the first round where i've seen generalship as the deciding factor - just so we can say history cheated him but it is not the case. He was to inactive. Even if he'd just decided "tonight i'm going to hold my left hand higher" he probably would have picked off enough semi-scoring type jabs to get the decision or a draw.

And that's the irony. The technician was laid low by technical factors in a fight against a puncher. Carter's jab and high guard earn him a really good win in what i'd see as a career's best, in-spite of the famous KO1.


Incidently, as well as being a really absorbing fight, it's a lovely fight film with a really nice commentary. Well worth a look:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Fz462y_ug[/ame]

[Flea Man]

I was also very impressed with all that Carter showed in that fight (I might well have mentioned it in the article, as well as Bentons strength and inside work, which was also a surprise to me) but all in all a really fun (well, never dull IMO) and interesting contest between two quality middleweights.

I had it 5-5, but I can see why Carter edged it. The 10th round is a quality one, Carter finally shows his power when he clips Benton near the end and staggers him. Carter looks a rounded puncher here, and it's one of the reasons I defended him in the recent 'Valdez or Carter' thread. I would also favour KO1 Griffith as his best victory....it's a ridiculous feat!

I uploaded it to YouTube to help out the Encyclopedia entry on Benton I did (what I edited the piece down from), but sweetboxing is the source

[Flea Man]

I don't think Giardello would've fancied Benton even if he'd got the decision to be honest.

[McGrain]

Were our cards fundamentally different or did you just give 4 to Benton?

[Flea Man]

2;4;6;7;8 to Benton. I think a sweet counter and combo he pulled off in the 2nd was the best work of a closeish round. There are a few hard to score rounds. I imagine I'd score a few of them differently on each watch.

[McGrain]

2;4;6;7;8 to Benton
3,5,7,8 to Benton

Very different cards. In fact we only agree upon 1, 7, 8, 9 and 10. It is a tricksy fight though.

[Flea Man]

And I was probably stoned as fuck at the time, so I'm a less reliable pair of eyes...but an intense viewer no doubt.