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Old 01-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #1426
McGrain
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Ray Mercer UD10 Tim Witherspoon


Now he's out-jabbing Tim Witherspoon...

In round 6 he put on a bit of a jabbing clinic, throwing more, landing more, no real variety, just accurate, attentive punching often threaded although against a rather stationary target. Witherspoon faded a bit in a crazy pace, not just in terms of punches thrown but in terms of punchers landed, these guys were up in 70% of punches landed on occasion which is crazy for two old HW's.

Witherspoon took one, two and three without much issue based upon some savage body-punching, but in all honesty it had very little visible affect. Once or twice Mercer seemed to drop his hands, but nothing that drastic. Meanwhile, Mercer was landing good punches of his own and starting to establish that jab, and he sneaks a violent round 4. It's hard to believe he'll go on and win at this point because he went postal to win that round and he only shadowed it by a hair...how he was going to win rounds wasn't particularly clear.

Witherspoon's tiring in combination with Mercer's jab was the answer. Witherspoon didn't sag so much as wind down a bit. His corner warned him after round 8, by which time he'd lost three in a row to which Witherspoon reacted it's not a close ****in' fight...it's not close, but in fact he needed the last two rounds just to draw at that point, on the judges rather odd cards.

All I can think is that Witherspoon's dramatic bodypunches were ignored by the judges, because there's really no other way to explain three wide cards. I personally had Mercer needing a KO to win, after Witherspoon possibly heeded his corner in-spite of his disbelief, rallied to win round 9, but Ray did win round 10 on my card, so I had it a draw, which felt like the right result.

It's hard to be mad at Ray though, he just doesn't normally win these close fights. Had he managed to just dig in a tiny bit in round 9 he would have got it on my card. As well as being ridiculously easy to hit, part of Mercer's problem does seem to be about his randomly losing crucial parts of big close fights. Still, it's nice that the fight he finally got to win was a total war.



WITHERSPOON: 1,2,3,5,9.
MERCER: 4,6,7,8,10.

Last edited by McGrain; 01-19-2012 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:20 AM   #1427
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Carter was a very good stalking boxer-puncher imo, not just a banger.I dig his effort against farid salim for headmovement, technique and educated pressure as much as anything you'll see from any other middleweight seek and destroy guy.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:27 AM   #1428
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I agree with you. And he's inoccent, too!


The jab did surprise me though.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:08 PM   #1429
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

DLH-Quartey

Round 1: 10-9 DLH. DLH throws more and lands with more authority.
Round 2: 10-9 DLH. See Round 1
Round 3: 10-9 DLH. Close round, but DLH's activity edges it.
Round 4: 10-9 DLH. Quartey overall looked pretty listless this round.
Round 5: 10-9 Quartey. Quartey starts to come alive and keep the jab in Oscar's face this round.
Round 6: 10-9 Quartey. Both score knockdowns, but Quartey follows his knockdown of Oscar with a sustained attack that leaves Oscar very gunshy.
Round 7: 10-9 Quartey. Oscar looks visibly reluctant to throw anything, and Quartey thus clearly wins the round.
Round 8: 10-9 Quartey. Oscar still looks like a zombie in this round, and Quartey controls it easily.
Round 9: 10-9 Quartey. More of the same. Quartey clearly in command.
Round 10: 10-9 DLH. Oscar finally throws more in this one, including a big left hook at the start of the round that wobbles Quartey. Oscar's round.
Round 11: 10-9 Quartey. Quartey comes back to box effectively in this round, as the zombie, gunyshy Oscar of rounds 7-9 returns.
Round 12: 10-8 DLH. DLH wins this round big, scoring the knockdown at the beginning and then battering Quartey along the ropes before stopping and taking it easy. Too bad. He might have drawn a stoppage had he kept wailing on Quartey for another 20-30 seconds on the ropes. I have no clue why he was winded by this point. His activity levels from rounds 5-9 were extremely limited.

Final Score: 114-113 Oscar.

Lots of people say Quartey got robbed here, but I think it was a close fight that could have gone either way. The Judges had it too wide, but I've rewatched this one several times and always come to the same score.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #1430
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Hawkfan, my card is exactly the same as yours except. I agree with you that this isn't a robbery, in fact I'm a little confused about how people find more rounds for Quartey? Having said that...116-112?

Anyone got Quartey winning this?

One thing I disagree with you though is that Oscar "stopped and took it easy" in the 12th. I think he was absolutley done at that point. In fact it's almost comedic when Quartey staggers out as Oscar releases the pressure and for a moment, Oscar looks like he's about to fall over! It's a really hellecious round and I love that the referee didn't stop it. Although he looked nearly done, Ike was firing back. He also "won" what remained of the round!

I think Oscar was legitimately hurt in the 6th and this is probably the meat of what went wrong here. I'm not sure how I feel about the fight overall for Oscar's legacy. It was shown, as you say, that he was made to feel gunshy which is a slight black mark, additionally a combination of a shit Quartey fight plan, good small-move De La Hoya footwork pretty much took Ike's jab away, partially. This renders him an, I don't want to say "ordinary", but limited fighter offensively. He's not great on defence. Why isn't Oscar abusing him?

Still, you can't deny his courage and I for one thought he deserved it.

OSCAR: 1,2,3,4,10,12
QUARTEY: 5,6,7,8,9,11

114-113 OSCAR
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:15 PM   #1431
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quartey was a bruno clone by that point.The layoffs had ruined his sharpness.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:24 PM   #1432
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

George Foreman disagrees with you...that was a pretty biased commentary, even for him.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:44 PM   #1433
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Yeah, upon further review, Oscar does look exhausted in round 12 after he tried to finish Quartey. I suppose I was a little puzzled just because it wasn't a situation like the Trinidad fight where Oscar was bouncing around on his toes throwing tons of punches early in the fight. From 5-9 he looked very flat-footed and did not throw much at all, so I'm kind of puzzled why he was so tired. It wasn't like Quartey was ripping him to the body or anything during the stretch where he controlled the fight. Maybe his cardio just sucked for that fight, who knows?

On twitter not too long ago, DLH was asked who the hardest puncher he ever fought in his career was, and he answered Ike Quartey. McGrain, you're definitely right in saying DLH was more hurt than he let on in the 6th, and that likely explained his reluctance to engage for the next 4 rounds.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:41 AM   #1434
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

DLH had grown fat and lazy coming off his bum of the month tour following the Whitaker fight. He was hardly in the best shape for the Quartey fight. He entered the ring at 162 (I believe) which was way above norm, and it wasn't extra muscle he was packing.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:05 AM   #1435
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
DLH had grown fat and lazy coming off his bum of the month tour following the Whitaker fight. He was hardly in the best shape for the Quartey fight. He entered the ring at 162 (I believe) which was way above norm, and it wasn't extra muscle he was packing.
162 for DLH in the late 90s indeed meant he was very, very soft for the Quartey fight if true. I remember the prefight scales for DLH-Trinidad said DLH was 152 or so on the night of the fight, and he weighed around 152 for the first Mosley fight as well. I think Trinidad was 155 on the night of the fight according to HBO and Mosley was 156 or so.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:13 AM   #1436
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Probably underestimated Quartey because of Ike's own problems at the time.He didn't look sharp agains a faded Oba Carr just a few months later either.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:52 PM   #1437
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Yesterday I watched a new youtube upload, one I'd been wanting to see for some time, Alfonso Zamora - Jorge Lujan, for Zamora's WBA bantamweight title.

Zamora was coming off his exciting loss to Zarate, but had a layoff of several months, and according to the ringside announcers. had to shed three pounds in the final two days to make 118.

He stalked forward in that springy-legged wide stance he employed, hands high, winging his patented hooks and rights, but he was off by a mile on most of his shots. Lujan, for his part, was adept at ducking and slipping and sliding around the ropes and masterfully elduding the heavier hitter's boms, occasionally countering.

I gave Zamora the first three on simple aggression, ineffective as it was. The only time Lujan seemed bothered was toward the end of the first wen Zamora buckled his knees along the ropes with a right. Other than that, the challenger bided his time and countered enough to let Zamora know he was there. Then the champion started tiring.......

He kept trying, but Zamora was by the fourth round a little less inclined to just rush in, as Lujan was now exacting a toll for it, swelling up his eyes and bloodying his nose.

By the eighth, Zamora was toast, but he bravely tried to rally with a desperation flurry as Lujan let him spend his last bullets.

I'll give this to Zamora; he knew he was beaten, but the little bastard went down swinging. He was winging big shots into the fateful tenth round, hoping for a miracle. None was coming, and Lujan clipped him with a final right hand that had the now deposed champion sitting against a turnbuckle to be counted out. Here's how I had it............


Zamora; 1,2,3
Lujan: 4,5,6,7,8,9

Lujan KO10
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:31 PM   #1438
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Good fight that, though Zamora looked a damaged fighter in there.everything just seemed to have slightly fallen to bits post-zarate KO.

Lujan was a good tricky, cagey fighter though.Maybe zamora would have had a better bet at re-establishing his confidence and sharpness against a few soft opponents first.But then again it's not as if Lujan had a lengthy stacked record, there was just a great deal of depth and potential stumbling blocks in the division at the time.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:06 PM   #1439
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lora View Post
Good fight that, though Zamora looked a damaged fighter in there.everything just seemed to have slightly fallen to bits post-zarate KO.

Lujan was a good tricky, cagey fighter though.Maybe zamora would have had a better bet at re-establishing his confidence and sharpness against a few soft opponents first.But then again it's not as if Lujan had a lengthy stacked record, there was just a great deal of depth and potential stumbling blocks in the division at the time.

Yeah, it seemed obvious Zamora didn't really respect Lujan at first; he showed absolutely no jab whatsoever, just walked in behind those huge swinging shots. He clearly expected this relative unknown to just fall over at some point, but his timing was so horrible, and when he DID land Lujan proved very sturdy.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:00 PM   #1440
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I'll upload Zamora Vs deaf&mute Ali-wannabe Sukhothai this week.
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