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Old 11-26-2009, 11:37 AM   #61
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Default Re: The best combination punchers of all time?

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Exactly!
I dont understand what you are trying to say.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:38 AM   #62
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I dont understand what you are trying to say.
Check back a few posts.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:40 AM   #63
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Still not with you Popkins. You will have to explain.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:41 AM   #64
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70s Duran threw beautiful combinations for fun, while avoiding being touched himself a lot of the time.

I think you are maybe overrating Marquez by including him in that little group, I don't think he throws combos as well as the other three (I think his technique for throwing a single shot is gorgeous though). He is a good combination-puncher of course, but I wouldn't say his ability was that outstanding that it demands to be elevated above a hundred others. I'll agree with you on Barrera though, and not just coz you want me to! MAB did throw a mean combination, really lovely technique.
Fair enough regarding Marquez. Don't be surprised if Divac comes in and shouts you down for it though, he's the one who claims Marco was a one handed fighter. Never mind I have hours of footage to dispute that claim, and anyone who has ever seen Marco fight, knows he's talking shit. I think Marquez can put really nice combination's together, but it's interesting to hear a different point of view. I'm sick of the General getting excited and fickle, and rating Marquez above Morales and Barrera because his best work is fresh in their memories, whilst the other two have been retired.

Youtube really needs a good Duran highlight video. I can gauge just how supremely talented both Orlando Canizales and Julio Cesar Chavez were simply by watching 3-4 minute highlight reels. You know how highly I regard his performance against Iran Barkley, but I realize that Duran was a shadow of his former self, and at Lightweight he was a whole different machine. I have seen highlight of the Palamino fight, and he did look supreme in every way.

You've stayed clear of all my Canizales propaganda this week. What's your take on the former Bantamweight king?
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:43 AM   #65
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Both except Norris.
I can't help but laugh whenever Norris is mentioned. The guy was a good fighter, nothing more than that. His best wins came against past prime opposition, and his jaw was found wanting even against journeyman level opposition at times. Rooster and Blanco still insist on bringing him up on such threads though.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:44 AM   #66
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Default Re: The best combination punchers of all time?

1 Ray Robinson - Blows me away with is combos fast left hooks right hands, right uppercuts everything. His left hook was the bread and butter of the combo doubling tripling it up.

2. Joe Louis - Just brutal combinations that were all hurtful from range or in close

3. Ike Williams - Aint seen much of him but what i have seen is reminiscent of Louis.

4. Ray Leonard - The welterweight ray Leonard was a brilliant combination puncher and some of the stuff he threw was great. Like RObisnon a left hook punctuated it although he through his look at a different angle.

5. Jose Napoles - He had that 1950s smooth Cuban style the subtle head movemnt then exploding into a counter combination his hooks to the body and head were lethal and then like all cubans of teh tiem he had that uppercut/bolo shots.

HMs: Wilfredo Gomez, Kid Gavilan, Carlos Ortiz, Fighting Harada, Ruben Olivares, Eder Jofre, Pascual Perez, Yoko Gushiken
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:44 AM   #67
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Still not with you Popkins. You will have to explain.
You obviously didn't check back. Basically I am being rude about Terry Norris. I don't think his name should be mentioned on a thread for the best combination puncher of all-time. Now if it had just been you who brought him up, I wouldn't have said a word, everyone being entitled to their own opinion and all that, but my intervention was already made (a few posts back) to that guy who first brought up Norris. I don't know the guy or anything, but he seems to throw Norris's hat into the ring for every thread going. It irritates me. One of my favourite fighters is Manny Pacquiao, but if a poll is made asking for the hardest hitter ever or the best defence ever, I'm not going to put him forward as an answer... because he obviously wasn't despite my affection for him. Saying Norris on this thread is unjustifiable IMO, of course he wasn't the best combination puncher ever, nor even remotely close to it. As I said, I was reacting to that other guy though, not you.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:46 AM   #68
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Default Re: The best combination punchers of all time?

I'm nearly 100% certain that Duran in his lightweight and early welter days displayed better combination punching than I've ever seen Chavez, Barrera, Marquez, Lopez or Canizales show. Those men at their best were all masters of fundamental combo punching technique, but they didn't have the subtlety, innovation or intuition that Duran displayed, and again much better opposition at that.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:50 AM   #69
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I'm nearly 100% certain that Duran in his lightweight and early welter days displayed better combination punching than I've ever seen Chavez, Barrera, Marquez, Lopez or Canizales show. Those men at their best were all masters of fundamental combo punching technique, but they didn't have the subtlety, innovation or intuition that Duran displayed, and again much better opposition at that.
You're entitled your opinion. It might just be a case of me not having seen the best examples of Duran's combination's, but in terms of fluidity, speed, and accuracy...I've not seen too many better than Marco Antonio Barrera over the last 20 years. What Duran fights do you recommend I watch to witness this superior combination punching you speak of?
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:51 AM   #70
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Fair enough regarding Marquez. Don't be surprised if Divac comes in and shouts you down for it though, he's the one who claims Marco was a one handed fighter. Never mind I have hours of footage to dispute that claim, and anyone who has ever seen Marco fight, knows he's talking shit. I think Marquez can put really nice combination's together, but it's interesting to hear a different point of view. I'm sick of the General getting excited and fickle, and rating Marquez above Morales and Barrera because his best work is fresh in their memories, whilst the other two have been retired.

Youtube really needs a good Duran highlight video. I can gauge just how supremely talented both Orlando Canizales and Julio Cesar Chavez were simply by watching 3-4 minute highlight reels. You know how highly I regard his performance against Iran Barkley, but I realize that Duran was a shadow of his former self, and at Lightweight he was a whole different machine. I have seen highlight of the Palamino fight, and he did look supreme in every way.

You've stayed clear of all my Canizales propaganda this week. What's your take on the former Bantamweight king?
There is an amazing Duran highlights vid on youtube, I have to go to work now but I'll send you the link later tonight.

I don't really have much of an opinion on Canizales mate. I've saw him fight Billy Hardy, and a couple of highlights vids. I think he's a solid, tidy, effective boxer, but his resume is very thin, and you could make the argument he lost to the best fighters he faced. I can appreciate why you are a fan, but his is not a career set I'd be rushing to purchase. JMHO mate.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:51 AM   #71
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Default Re: The best combination punchers of all time?

in my HM missed out Duran and Cesaer Chavez
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:52 AM   #72
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Default Re: The best combination punchers of all time?

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1 Ray Robinson - Blows me away with is combos fast left hooks right hands, right uppercuts everything. His left hook was the bread and butter of the combo doubling tripling it up.

2. Joe Louis - Just brutal combinations that were all hurtful from range or in close

3. Ike Williams - Aint seen much of him but what i have seen is reminiscent of Louis.

4. Ray Leonard - The welterweight ray Leonard was a brilliant combination puncher and some of the stuff he threw was great. Like RObisnon a left hook punctuated it although he through his look at a different angle.

5. Jose Napoles - He had that 1950s smooth Cuban style the subtle head movemnt then exploding into a counter combination his hooks to the body and head were lethal and then like all cubans of teh tiem he had that uppercut/bolo shots.

HMs: Wilfredo Gomez, Kid Gavilan, Carlos Ortiz, Fighting Harada, Ruben Olivares, Eder Jofre, Pascual Perez, Yoko Gushiken
Good stuff chappie, those first 5 are hard to argue with. Perez and Gushiken never occurred to me. Chang and Zapata both threw classy combinations as well, though with differing styles.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:53 AM   #73
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I can't help but laugh whenever Norris is mentioned. The guy was a good fighter, nothing more than that. His best wins came against past prime opposition, and his jaw was found wanting even against journeyman level opposition at times. Rooster and Blanco still insist on bringing him up on such threads though.
You can laugh all you like but he dusted Mugabi down with ease, Mugabi gave Hagler all he could handle, he also beat fighters like Meldrick Taylor who was not finished he was just fighting a bigger stronger man at a higher weight, Norris was not even a big 154 pound anyway.

Norris also beat Castro comfortably, Castro knocked out J D Jacson and beat Reggie Johnson. The same Johnson that beat Steve Collins in a war years before he beat Eubank & Benn 2x.

He also beat Blocker whom beat [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

He has solid if not spectacular wins against faded fighters like Curry, Leonard.

He also avanged his loss to Simon Brown.

Nothing laughable about Norris's record, he fought some past prime fighters but he also had some solid wins.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:55 AM   #74
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Default Re: The best combination punchers of all time?

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There is an amazing Duran highlights vid on youtube, I have to go to work now but I'll send you the link later tonight.

I don't really have much of an opinion on Canizales mate. I've saw him fight Billy Hardy, and a couple of highlights vids. I think he's a solid, tidy, effective boxer, but his resume is very thin, and you could make the argument he lost to the best fighters he faced. I can appreciate why you are a fan, but his is not a career set I'd be rushing to purchase. JMHO mate.
Absolutely. The points you make regarding his resume are justified, and you could say he lost to Wilfredo Vasquez and Junior Jones, the best two opponents of his career. I prefer to view those two fights as taking place above Orlando's most effective weight, and when he was leaving his prime years. The Vasquez fight could have gone either way by most accounts. I just think in terms of ability, I'd rather watch Orlando Canizales than any other fighter ever...because of hos he delivered shots, the angles he creates for himself...he was exceptional. I've purchased his career set, and I don't envision being disappointed.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:57 AM   #75
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He has solid if not spectacular wins against faded fighters like Curry, Leonard.
...This is what I'm talking about.
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