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Old 12-04-2009, 01:48 PM   #1
The Morlocks
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Default WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Who was less talented, ray mancini or vinnie pazienza
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Paz.

Mancini was limited, but also capable of being very good...a very solid lightweight who was overhyped at the time.Paz was just a decent flash over substance crowd pleaser.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by Mantequilla View Post
Paz.

Mancini was limited, but also capable of being very good...a very solid lightweight who was overhyped at the time.Paz was just a decent flash over substance crowd pleaser.

totally agree
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Mancini had WAY less ability than Paz............. Mancini was one-dimensional to the maxi-pad............... Paz later developed a good boxing approach which allowed him to remain in the game than he should've.......

BUT!!! Mancini looked naturally trained to me, while Paz later became an obvious juicer when fighting after his broken neck scenario in 1992..........

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Mancini had WAY less ability than Paz............. Mancini was one-dimensional to the maxi-pad............... Paz later developed a good boxing approach which allowed him to remain in the game than he should've.......

BUT!!! Mancini looked naturally trained to me, while Paz later became an obvious juicer when fighting after his broken neck scenario in 1992..........

MR.BILL
I agree, and the ability to comeback and fight at supermiddle like he did after that wreck was an amazing feat. His fights with Duran were entertaining for what they were worth, but the train wreck against Jones was a sad sight. As arrogant as he was, I felt bad for his dad when he had to jump in the ring and save his son, who was getting his head handed to him by Jones.
I wouldnt class Paz's skills to far off the radar screen compared to Mancini either. Paz wasnt the prettiest boxer, and both were tough.

Last edited by lefthook31; 12-04-2009 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Mancini was less talented. Paz wasn't too much better, but he did have more on the ball than a straight ahead slugger style..and shown in that 3rd bout with Greg Haugen, when he switched to a hit and run type of style to win a debateable decision in the worst of their three fights.
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Mancini showed more ability against Arguello and Ramirez alone than anything PAz ever did.

imo Vinnie was a hack.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

This isn't rationally debatable. I hate Paz as much as the next guy (don't we all?), but he was gifted with speed Boom-Boom was lacking in. Paz retired a winner at 42, was only stopped three times in 60 fights, and did not get floored until the first match with Duran, when he was 32 years old, in his 43rd fight. Ray was still only 22 years old when he stopped Chacon for his final win.

Mancini made the most of what he had, but the only world champions he beat were Ramirez (the best opponent he defeated), Art Frias (one of the very weakest and luckiest title winners of the last 30 years), a completely shot Espana, and an aging and outsized Chacon (in a bout which may have been stopped prematurely).

Paz: Duran twice, Haugen (who stopped and permanently retired Mancini) twice, former P4P number one contender Honeyghan (stoppage), Dele (stoppage) and Arroyo. He's responsible for the only defeat on Dana Rosenblatt's dossier (via stoppage), and holds stoppage wins over top contenders like Roberto Elizondo, and Melvin Paul. For all intents and purposes, he retired Robbie Sims (who later came back for one more match so he could go out a winner).

For Mancini to even compete in this discussion, he would have had to have won that proposed match with Pryor which never came off. (Even doing well with the Hawk could have helped his case.)
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Almost all of those guys were washed up when Paz beat them as well.Honeyghan and Simms were on their deathbeds.Boith would have beaten the hell out of Vinnie in their prime.I'd hardly count his Duran performances as positives either.

Neither guy has much of a record, but i dunno what anybody ever saw in Paz, all he had over Mancini was speed.
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Mancini, Paz did have some boxing ability.
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by Mantequilla View Post
Almost all of those guys were washed up when Paz beat them as well. Honeyghan and Simms were on their deathbeds. Both would have beaten the hell out of Vinnie in their prime.
The Duran of 1989 would have killed him, let alone the peak version.
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I'd hardly count his Duran performances as positives either.
Duran was still competent, and his first bout with Camacho was still ahead of him, a match many thought he won. Roberto's future returns with Castro and Lawlor showed he could still improve in rematches at this late stage. Neither of Vinnie's wins was tainted by controversial scoring. Haugen, Bolanos, Rosenblatt and Dele were undefeated until Pazienza. (Incredibly, Orlando Romero is the only unbeaten world class scalp on Mancini's record.)
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Neither guy has much of a record, but i dunno what anybody ever saw in Paz, all he had over Mancini was speed.
Speed and longevity. Boom-Boom's prime was awfully brief. Vinnie had the knack of pissing people off, and wanting to see somebody beat the shit out of him. Ultimately, Paz was able to get a lot more mileage out of that than Ray's compelling story could provide him. (Once he beat Frias for a title, that chapter was closed.) Ray stopped winning at 22. Paz kept winning for another 20 years past that age.

Haugen's win over Paz was one of my favorite 15 round decisions, a resourceful boxing exhibition he wasn't expected to prevail in.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Mancini was better.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
I agree, and the ability to comeback and fight at supermiddle like he did after that wreck was an amazing feat. His fights with Duran were entertaining for what they were worth, but the train wreck against Jones was a sad sight. As arrogant as he was, I felt bad for his dad when he had to jump in the ring and save his son, who was getting his head handed to him by Jones.
I wouldnt class Paz's skills to far off the radar screen compared to Mancini either. Paz wasnt the prettiest boxer, and both were tough.
atleast Roy and paz became friends after the fight. Vinny said Roy was an unbelievable boxer one of the best ever. I'm happy they became friends because what Roy did to Vinny in that ring was ****en murder.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

I enjoyed Greg Haugens revenge victory over Paz immensely, Duodenum...a very satisfying victory of a real guy, Haugen, over a full of shit Mr. Priss in Paz.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Quote:
Posted by lefthook31
but the train wreck against Jones was a sad sight. As arrogant as he was, I felt bad for his dad when he had to jump in the ring and save his son, who was getting his head handed to him by Jones.
Jones did dominate Pazienza, and went one round without Paz landing a punch. I still have to give the outgunned, former lightweight, credit for winning round 2 against Jones.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABdyJaETw28&feature=PlayList&p=FC6C8247D9BDBC22&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8[/ame]
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