Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-27-2009, 01:35 PM   #1
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

THE TIMES DISPATCH:

"KEPT NEGRO JUMPING DURING SIX ROUND DRAW: O'BRIEN PUT UP GAME FIGHT HAD JOHNSON TIRED AND ANXIOUS: JOHNSON HOOTED BY CROWD: SLOW ON HIS FEET AND NOT IN CONDITION - RESORTED TO ROUGH TACTICS.

"Johnson, the big coloured HW champion failed to win over Jack O'Brien the Philadelphia light-heavyweight in a six round bout. The fight was even, the consensus of opinion that the result would have been a draw were a decision permitted. O'Brien's fast footwork and superior blocking saved him from damage in several close mixes but three times he was forced to his knees by the negro's great strength and weight in the clinches.

It was a fast fight with Johnson doing most of the leading. Johnson was slow on his feet and appeared not to be in good condition...he repeatedly rushed [O'Brien] but seldom landed cleanly. A right hand counter in the fifth cut O'Brien's eye but that was the sum total of the damage done.

O'Brien was in and out in a flash stabbing Johnson in the face, but the blow was not heavy and had no other affect than to make the big black man grin and wave to the crowd, that cheered every time O'Brien landed and hooted the Johnson's rough work in the clinches."


The referee spoke in praise of O'Brien's showing, and is quoted here.


ROUND BY ROUND:

1 - Johnson rushed O'Brien. O'Brien came back with a left to the face. Johnson rushed O'Brien to the floor. O'Brien landed a left to the face but Johnson only grinned and shoved him to his knee...O'Brien's quickness of foot stood him in good stead. The round was even.

2 - O'Brien led to the face but was blocked and Johnson lifted him from his feet in the clinch that followed...Johnson rushed O'Brien to the ropes...Marvellos ducking saved O'Brien from damage...O'Brien caught Johnson on the face three times...Johnson waited for O'Brien to lead then took after him like a whirlwind but some quick footwork spared O'Brien from harm. O'Brien's round.

3 - Johnson missed with the left and took a light stab in the face. O'Brien was in and out quickly but took a left to the stomach. Johnson set himself to counter but was slow and took a left to the face. Johnson went after O'Brien viciously and a left had O'Brien's mouth bleeding...Johnson ended the round looking winded...the round was which was about even ended with O'Brien's work showing cleaner.

4 - O'Brien put a left to the face and took a left to the body...Johnson waited for O'Brien to lead...he caught O'Brien with a [glancing] right to the head and left to the body...Johnson appeared slow...if anything, the advantage was O'Brien's.

5 - Johnson caught O'Brien with a left to the face and O'Brien went down but was up in a flash. Johnson tried to put out his right uppercut but was blocked. A right to the right eye cut O'Brien's eye badly.

6 - They sparred cautiosly...O'Brien landed a left to the body, good and hard and Johnson only smiled.




THE NEW YORK SUN

"O'BRIEN OUTPOINTS JOHNSON. PHILADELPHIAN SHOWS SKILL IN SHORT BOUT. HAS THE BETTER OF THREE ROUNDS, NEGRO CHAMPION SHOWS SUPERIORITY IN ONLY ONE AND LEANS HEAVILY ON O'BRIEN. BIG CROWD AT FIGHT."

"Jack Johnson...did not cover himself in glory here tonight...[rather] he was outpunched by a small margin in a fight that was interesting all the way. O'Brien, who was fully forty pounds lighter, did most of the leading. He landed more clean blows and showed a better knowledge of ring tactics. He made Johnson look foolish [with] clever feinting."


So O'Brien might have had the better of this one. He was onto a loser over a longer distance though, reading the signs, anyone disagree? Also, Boxrec has this listed as a title fight, but I can't find a mention of this anywhere. Anyone?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-27-2009, 04:12 PM   #2
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,603
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
So O'Brien might have had the better of this one. He was onto a loser over a longer distance though, reading the signs, anyone disagree? Also, Boxrec has this listed as a title fight, but I can't find a mention of this anywhere. Anyone?
I have seen some articles where it was argued that Johnson deserved the decision for being more agressive.

You could probably argue it either way.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:14 PM   #3
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

No doubt, and Boxrec quotes some papers that see it the other way. Still, great performance from O'Brien. It does sound like he was well on his way to being broken down over a longer distance though.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:34 PM   #4
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,603
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
No doubt, and Boxrec quotes some papers that see it the other way. Still, great performance from O'Brien. It does sound like he was well on his way to being broken down over a longer distance though.
Would ou call it a great performence from O'Brien or a lousy performence from Jack Johnson?

I am slightly of the latter mindset myself.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:40 PM   #5
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Would ou call it a great performence from O'Brien or a lousy performence from Jack Johnson?

I am slightly of the latter mindset myself.
It seems Johnson was out of shape and very aware that he was in an ND contest. That said, Jack Johnson is a top 10 HW lock in his prime of life and still in the midst of his boxing prime. Let's consider a 163lb man turning up and arguably out-boxing Holmes, Ali or one of the other great boxing HW's over a short distance...Johnson's shape/attitude is almost incidental.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:45 PM   #6
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,603
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
It seems Johnson was out of shape and very aware that he was in an ND contest. That said, Jack Johnson is a top 10 HW lock in his prime of life and still in the midst of his boxing prime. Let's consider a 163lb man turning up and arguably out-boxing Holmes, Ali or one of the other great boxing HW's over a short distance...Johnson's shape/attitude is almost incidental.
Some people would give O'Brien the same sort of credit as Billy Conn is given for his loosing effort against Louis.

I am not one of them.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:46 PM   #7
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Some people would give O'Brien the same sort of credit as Billy Conn is given for his loosing effort against Louis.

I am not one of them.

Nor am I...Louis is better than Johnson, and being clearly ahead after 12 is more impressive than being borderline after 6.

But it doesn't have to be the greatest losing performance in history (which Conn's effort against Louis is IMO) to be genuinely impressive.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:48 PM   #8
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,632
vCash: 238
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

A great achievement by O'Brien, but i don't think it should be considered that significant. After all, it was only 6 rounds. What if Lewis vs Bruno was over 6 rounds? Ali vs Mildenberger? Meehan vs Dempsey? Of course, they would've fought different if it ended after 6 and Bruno/Mildenberger weren't exactly middleweights, but my point is that a lot of people can look good for a select amount of rounds.

Good for O'Brien, but i don't think it has much bearing on Johnson's resume. Is that correct English?
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 04:50 PM   #9
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
A great achievement by O'Brien, but i don't think it should be considered that significant. After all, it was only 6 rounds.
I agree with you, and like I say, I think Johnson was starting to break O'Brien down (the clinches, the cut eye, the bleeding mouth)

Quote:
What if Lewis vs Bruno was over 6 rounds? Ali vs Mildenberger? Of course, they would've fought different if it ended after 6 and Bruno/Mildenberger weren't exactly middleweights, but my point is that a lot of people can look good for a select amount of rounds.
40lbs, 3 inches, and even if you aren't in love with Johnson as a boxer in an era v era sense, he was amongst the best boxers of his time.

Quote:
Good for O'Brien, but i don't think it has much bearing on Johnson's resume. Is that correct English?
Spot on as always.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 05:00 PM   #10
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 11,576
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Johnson was a lousy champion. I don't know why people have such a hard time with this self-evident fact.

Really good fighter, not very good champ.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 05:01 PM   #11
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Johnson was a lousy champion. I don't know why people have such a hard time with this self-evident fact.

Really good fighter, not very good champ.

It's a pretty miserable reign.

Anyone know anything about this being listed as a title fight?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 05:04 PM   #12
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,603
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Johnson was a lousy champion. I don't know why people have such a hard time with this self-evident fact.
I have never disputed it and I am probably the biggest Johnson proponent on this board.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 05:18 PM   #13
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 11,576
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I have never disputed it and I am probably the biggest Johnson proponent on this board.
C'mon. If I can't find a good argument, I have to get back to doing real work.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 05:25 PM   #14
Grebfan9
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

I think that Johnson's title reign would have been much better if he wasn't forced to fight the White Hopes - Ross, Kaufmann, etc.

The promoters made these matches with these guys cause of the racism that was evident at that time.

Had Johnson fought Langford, Jeanette and some of the other black Heavyweights, Johnson would have had a great title reign.

Johnson would have been well prepared for these tough challengers.

Grebfan9
Grebfan9 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 05:56 PM   #15
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Philidelphia Jack O'Brien gave Jack Johnson fits over the short distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post

Anyone know anything about this being listed as a title fight?
I believe I've seen it listed as a title fight sometimes, and other times not. In those days there weren't the kind of commissions or sanctioning bodies that would flat out state something was a title fight or not, and sometimes reports and public opinion were not so sure or in agreement themselves, so it can be hard to discern.
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013