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View Poll Results: DLH vs. Kostya
DLH decision 33 24.63%
DLH stoppage 30 22.39%
Kostya decision 36 26.87%
Kostya stoppage 35 26.12%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-27-2007, 08:17 PM   #121
MSTR
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by Robbi
And I never said De La Hoya would beat Tszyu based on how he beat Gonzalez. Nonsense.
You pointed to how his jab was working against Gonzalez. To me, this was implying that he could do the same to KT. KT thrashed Gonzalez, so IMO its not really a valid point, as clearly KT is in a different league to Gonzalez.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:19 PM   #122
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by MSTR
Based on what? His one impressive KO victory of Phillips, who was up at welter weight, as opposed to jr where he fought KT? Phillips had big problems outside the ring also, which was what caused a lot of his inconsistency.
While Tszyu was never a man to make excuses let's not forget he had his own problems before the fight with Phillips, with his court case (that he lost) happenning alongside his training camp.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:22 PM   #123
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by Dekkers
While Tszyu was never a man to make excuses let's not forget he had his own problems before the fight with Phillips, with his court case (that he lost) happenning alongside his training camp for Phillips.
For sure. Still, Phillips came in highly focused and motivated. I am sure I have heard that Phillips was a drug addict throughout his career which greatly affected him at different times. I think a highly motivated and focused Phillips was always going to be a tough fight, however the stuff that happened to KT, and his legal battles was the difference between winning and losing here iMO.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:23 PM   #124
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

I'll be honest with you I really don't know.

Originally I would say that DLH is just too big for Tszyu. DLH was no stranger to taking punches in his career, but he often came out on top. And it wasn't until 147 that he started to come out on the losing end of punching exchanges.

I would say that Tszyu could carry some pop to 147, but DLH at 147 hit harder. By that virtue, I'd say DLH at 140 probably also hit harder.

DLH often squared up and used both hands effectively to land combinations. Tszyu had a great left hook but at mid range he'd rely heavily on his jab and right hand. DLh would be forced to respect Tszyu's right hand, so he'd likely wait for Tszyu to commit then he'd throw a quick combination behind the right hand.

The one area that I could see Tszyu get in some real trouble is that he always had to have his feet planted. He didn't like wasting punches so he'd plant his feet on every right hand. DLH would take note of this and would likely catch Tszyu flat footed with his vaunted left hook.

If I had to lean one way I'd say DLH by stoppage. But I could see Tszyu's patience paying off and dropping DLH on a big right hand.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:26 PM   #125
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by MSTR
For sure. Still, Phillips came in highly focused and motivated. I am sure I have heard that Phillips was a drug addict throughout his career which greatly affected him at different times. I think a highly motivated and focused Phillips was always going to be a tough fight, however the stuff that happened to KT, and his legal battles was the difference between winning and losing here iMO.
True the difference between a motivated and an unmotivated fighter can be extraordinary, 'cough' Buster 'cough'.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #126
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by MSTR
But I have done that clearly. Just because I don't agree with your prediction doesn't mean I have not done this.
No problems. One thing we both agree on, its a close fight. While De La Hoya probably has the speed and quick combinations over Tszyu, he'd get pushed to the limit and have his chin tested on occassions. De La Hoya does have a very good defense, but not quite good enough to make Tszyu's right hand miss all night.

Regarding stamina. De La Hoya closed the show against Gonzalez at 140lbs, and his stamina was never in question at all throughout his career until he fought Trinidad. He moved with his legs rather than his fists. He simply never had it in him to keep away and throw effective punches at the same time. Its up for debate if sharing a ring with Tszyu would bring out stamina problems in De La Hoya, as Tszyu would certainly make for a more gruelling fight than Gonzalez. But De La Hoya never showed stamina problems at 140lbs, if we want to be strict on our criteria.

Some people have said that De La Hoya is bigger and stronger than Tszyu, and hits harder. I don't agree with this for one minute. De La Hoya does have decent respectable power, but not devasating. Tszyu hits harder at 140lbs in my eyes.

And De La Hoya is only bigger than Tszyu in height and reach. I'd actually say Tszyu walked around between fights heavier than De La Hoya did when they both fought at 140lbs. Tszyu's much thicker around the waist and across the shoulders than De La Hoya.

De La Hoya never struggled to make 140lbs. He moved up because bigger marquee fights were at welterweight. It was the money division at the time in boxing during the mid-late 90's. Whitaker, Quartey, and Trinidad. Whitaker was a very tough fight on paper, but he was past his prime. It was looked upon as a winnable fight for De La Hoya, with a career highest purse at that point in his career.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:32 PM   #127
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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True the difference between a motivated and an unmotivated fighter can be extraordinary, 'cough' Buster 'cough'.
Prime example.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:34 PM   #128
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by Robbi
No problems. One thing we both agree on, its a close fight. While De La Hoya probably has the speed and quick combinations over Tszyu, he'd get pushed to the limit and have his chin tested on occassions. De La Hoya does have a very good defense, but not quite good enough to make Tszyu's right hand miss all night.

Regarding stamina. De La Hoya closed the show against Gonzalez at 140lbs, and his stamina was never in question at all throughout his career until he fought Trinidad. He moved with his legs rather than his fists. He simply never had it in him to keep away and throw effective punches at the same time. Its up for debate if sharing a ring with Tszyu would bring out stamina problems in De La Hoya, as Tszyu would certainly make for a more gruelling fight than Gonzalez. But De La Hoya never showed stamina problems at 140lbs, if we want to be strict on our criteria.

Some people have said that De La Hoya is bigger and stronger than Tszyu, and hits harder. I don't agree with this for one minute. De La Hoya does have decent respectable power, but not devasating. Tszyu hits harder at 140lbs in my eyes.

And De La Hoya is only bigger than Tszyu in height and reach. I'd actually say Tszyu walked around between fights heavier than De La Hoya did when they both fought at 140lbs. Tszyu's much thicker around the waist and across the shoulders than De La Hoya.

De La Hoya never struggled to make 140lbs. He moved up because bigger marquee fights were at welterweight. It was the money division at the time in boxing during the mid-late 90's. Whitaker, Quartey, and Trinidad. Whitaker was a very tough fight on paper, but he was past his prime. It was looked upon as a winnable fight for De La Hoya, with a career highest purse at that point in his career.
Good post. I agree with what you have written here. Both fighters have their advantages, and it is very hard to pick. It is easy to forget just how quick he was in his prime at 140 also. Very close fight.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:36 PM   #129
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by Robbi
No problems. One thing we both agree on, its a close fight. While De La Hoya probably has the speed and quick combinations over Tszyu,

I'd argue Tszyu has faster hands punch for punch (though not in combinations), check out Kostyas' fight with Pedro Sanchez for example. Hoya also throws quite a few 'shoe-shine' combinations.

Regarding stamina. De La Hoya closed the show against Gonzalez at 140lbs, and his stamina was never in question at all throughout his career until he fought Trinidad. He moved with his legs rather than his fists. He simply never had it in him to keep away and throw effective punches at the same time. Its up for debate if sharing a ring with Tszyu would bring out stamina problems in De La Hoya, as Tszyu would certainly make for a more gruelling fight than Gonzalez. But De La Hoya never showed stamina problems at 140lbs, if we want to be strict on our criteria.

Tszyu was regarded as one of boxings best conditioned fighters before the Hatton fight. I think his stamina is fine, I think the Phillips fight was a bit of an oddity, he didn't have an ideal camp, he was also an older man at the time of the Hatton fight (his legs also weren't as strong, partly age, partly the surgery). There have been plenty of performances in Tszyus career when he showed much better conditioing than those two nights.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:44 PM   #130
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Default Re: DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

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Originally Posted by MSTR
You pointed to how his jab was working against Gonzalez. To me, this was implying that he could do the same to KT. KT thrashed Gonzalez, so IMO its not really a valid point, as clearly KT is in a different league to Gonzalez.
Nah mate, I just happened to mention De La Hoya's jab being in full flow at 140lbs against Gonzalez, since this thread is all about Tszyu against De La Hoya at that weight. I'm pretty confident De La Hoya's jab would prove to be a major weapon against Tszyu, no question about it. But Tszyu was brilliant at moving back from punches, just half a foot to avoid blows from his opponent. He could judge distance extremely well.

Gonzalez never showed a high enough punch-output and never closed the distance on De La Hoya to make his jab ineffective. He was straight up and down and gave De La Hoya an easy target to shoot the jab out. Tszyu is straight up and down as well, but he's busier and pulls in out of range better than Gonzalez.
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