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Old 12-04-2009, 07:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Mancini showed more ability against Arguello and Ramirez alone than anything PAz ever did.
Agreed.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
Jones did dominate Pazienza, and went one round without Paz landing a punch. I still have to give the outgunned, former lightweight, credit for winning round 2 against Jones.
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No questioning how tough Paz was, he gave it his best. It was an incredible performance on Jones part albeit against a guy who had no chance in the first place.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

I can't stand Pazienza. I hate his whole over-obvious macho bullshit approach.

However, to infer that either of these guys was untalented is an affront. I'm sure both can still kick the shit out of just about anyone on this board.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Old 12-05-2009, 09:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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I enjoyed Greg Haugens revenge victory over Paz immensely, Duodenum...a very satisfying victory of a real guy, Haugen, over a full of shit Mr. Priss in Paz.

Agreed. I'm not a Paz fan at all, and if you really want to see him get shelled, check out his fight with Roy Jones. OUCH.

Paz had more ability than Mancini.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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However, to infer that either of these guys was untalented is an affront. I'm sure both can still kick the shit out of just about anyone on this board.
Tho i agree both were talented beating the shit out of anyone on this board means absolutely nothing.

Compared to the likes of an Ali, Duran, SRL, well yes they were untalented.

Just because we can't fight doesn't mean we can't make rational judgements.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:45 AM   #22
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Tho i agree both were talented beating the shit out of anyone on this board means absolutely nothing.

Compared to the likes of an Ali, Duran, SRL, well yes they were untalented.

Just because we can't fight doesn't mean we can't make rational judgements.
Of course it doesn't. I just get a little heated when some interweb jockey obviously infers via the phrasing of his question that two guys who fought for multiple titles are lacking in talent, even if one of those in question is an individual I never liked. When all is said and done, given the number of fighters who have fought professionally in the past thirty years, these two are still in the top 100th of 1 percent talent/ability wise.

If it's so damn easy to get six figure purses and title shots, folks, go hit the gym. Surely any bloke off the street has a good chance of being more talented than these two.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Of course it doesn't. I just get a little heated when some interweb jockey obviously infers via the phrasing of his question that two guys who fought for multiple titles are lacking in talent, even if one of those in question is an individual I never liked. When all is said and done, given the number of fighters who have fought professionally in the past thirty years, these two are still in the top 100th of 1 percent talent/ability wise.

If it's so damn easy to get six figure purses and title shots, folks, go hit the gym. Surely any bloke off the street has a good chance of being more talented than these two.
Fair call, but i'd like to think 95% of the classic section full well realises this.
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:22 AM   #24
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Of course it doesn't. I just get a little heated when some interweb jockey obviously infers via the phrasing of his question that two guys who fought for multiple titles are lacking in talent, even if one of those in question is an individual I never liked. When all is said and done, given the number of fighters who have fought professionally in the past thirty years, these two are still in the top 100th of 1 percent talent/ability wise.

If it's so damn easy to get six figure purses and title shots, folks, go hit the gym. Surely any bloke off the street has a good chance of being more talented than these two.
I did box. But if you're soooo sensitive, why don't you watch tennis or figure skating. Paz was a frontrunner who always looked for an easy fight then talked tough like he was fighting king kong. When he had to fight Jones or get off the pot, In one round he threw a total of 1 punch and in the next he threw none. At least Mancini tried to win his fights. Paz was worthless and by the way, Mayweather knocked him down in their JW title fight.
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:34 AM   #25
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

And lets not forget Garza beat the hell out of Paz.Mancini wasn't as talented as Paz in terms of athletic ability but he was the better boxer.Paz vs Mancini prime for prime and Mancini runs Paz out of the ring.
Mamcini gave the graet Arguello a tough fight and I can't imagine Paz even going 4 rounds with Arguello.
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Different styles. Mancini was a come at you fighter. Pazienza fancied himself as a boxer/mixer....both men's biggest quality was heart and they had in in abundance
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by The Morlocks View Post
I did box. But if you're soooo sensitive, why don't you watch tennis or figure skating. Paz was a frontrunner who always looked for an easy fight then talked tough like he was fighting king kong. When he had to fight Jones or get off the pot, In one round he threw a total of 1 punch and in the next he threw none. At least Mancini tried to win his fights. Paz was worthless and by the way, Mayweather knocked him down in their JW title fight.
I don't think anyone dislikes Paz much more than I do. Personality-wise, he just tried too hard to be hard. Look, I know if someone is boxing professionally he is not a candy-ass. One doesn't need to talk shit and get in a roid rage and punch after the bell and be restrained by Larry Hazzard to prove it. And as you said, in the ring, he resembled more a poor man's Hector Camacho than the Lamotta/Graziano type he strived for.

All that said, the Jones fight was a fraud. I got a free ticket and reimbursed plane ticket to it and still turned it down. A roided up, over-the-hill, almost disabled, blown-up lightweight versus a legit super-middle with the greatest skillset in a decade. Did anyone really think Paz had a chance? Did Paz really think he had a chance? Another power-puff Jones opponent.

And as far as the topic, it seemed worded to insult. Forgive me if I am misreading here but then again I really don't give too much of damn.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by The Morlocks View Post
I did box. But if you're soooo sensitive, why don't you watch tennis or figure skating. Paz was a frontrunner who always looked for an easy fight then talked tough like he was fighting king kong. When he had to fight Jones or get off the pot, In one round he threw a total of 1 punch and in the next he threw none. At least Mancini tried to win his fights. Paz was worthless and by the way, Mayweather knocked him down in their JW title fight.
Thats pretty unfair, at supermiddle Paz looked like a soup can with arms and legs. Jones was just too much better in every area for Paz to do anything, and I think he tried the best he could but he had no business in there with Jones Jr.
He probably needed to stick to the old Duran, Dana Rosenblat circuit at the higher weight. He couldnt crack an egg either, but I liked what Kevin Rooney had him doing in his fights. That style is always fun to watch when its executed correctly.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
This isn't rationally debatable. I hate Paz as much as the next guy (don't we all?), but he was gifted with speed Boom-Boom was lacking in. Paz retired a winner at 42, was only stopped three times in 60 fights, and did not get floored until the first match with Duran, when he was 32 years old, in his 43rd fight. Ray was still only 22 years old when he stopped Chacon for his final win.

Mancini made the most of what he had, but the only world champions he beat were Ramirez (the best opponent he defeated), Art Frias (one of the very weakest and luckiest title winners of the last 30 years), a completely shot Espana, and an aging and outsized Chacon (in a bout which may have been stopped prematurely).

Paz: Duran twice, Haugen (who stopped and permanently retired Mancini) twice, former P4P number one contender Honeyghan (stoppage), Dele (stoppage) and Arroyo. He's responsible for the only defeat on Dana Rosenblatt's dossier (via stoppage), and holds stoppage wins over top contenders like Roberto Elizondo, and Melvin Paul. For all intents and purposes, he retired Robbie Sims (who later came back for one more match so he could go out a winner).

For Mancini to even compete in this discussion, he would have had to have won that proposed match with Pryor which never came off. (Even doing well with the Hawk could have helped his case.)

I agree full heartedly that Pazienza's speed and multi-dimensional boxing ability make him the more talented and complete fighter of the two. However, crediting Paz for beating a 40+ Duran and getting floored in the process, while calling Mancini's one round KO over Frias, a win over a weak champion, is a tad off balance in my opinion. Both men are fairly close in terms of quality in their competition, and if we really want to break things down, Mancini arguably looked better against Hector Camacho after returning from a 4 year layoff, than Paz did while being an active challenger. Pazienza's win over Gilbert Dele was a great performance that I saw live.. Honeyghan was basically shot as was Duran and a few others. Dana Rosenblatt had a nice looking record on paper, but was never a very good fighter. The Haugen Trilogy was as much of a classic rivalry as any other the sport has ever seen, and probably the corner stone of Vinnie's career.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: WHO WAS LESS TALENTED: vinny pazienza or ray mancini?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
Jones did dominate Pazienza, and went one round without Paz landing a punch. I still have to give the outgunned, former lightweight, credit for winning round 2 against Jones.
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He got a jabbing clinic put on him in that round outside of a 20 second flurry where hardly a punch connected. Easy round to Roy.
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