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Old 12-05-2009, 02:24 PM   #1
Henke67
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Default The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

Okay, I came across this book - "The 100 Greatest Boxers" by Mark Collings. The title pretty much gives away the books contents but his list is peppered with the top 10's of various experts.

What's your opinion on these lists? What are the biggest surprises (aside from somw of these guys being labelled "experts")?

The book was written in 1999 before Tito fought Oscar.

Emanuel Steward;

1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3.Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Archie Moore
6. Gene Tunney
7. Marvin Hagler
8. Thomas Hearns
9. Roberto Duran
10. George Foreman

Angelo Dundee;

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Ray Robinson
4. Harry Greb
5. Willie Pep
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Mickey Walker
8. Johnny Dundee
9. Benny Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jnr

Shelley Finkel;

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Ray Robinson
3. Ray Leonard
4. Joe Louis
5. Jack Johnson
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Roberto Duran
8. Pernell Whitaker
9. Joe Gans
10. Stanley Ketchel

Nigel Collins;

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Ray Robinson
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Jack Johnson
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Benny Leonard
8. Harry Greb
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Archie Moore

Adam Spelling (an "up-and-coming Lightweight" - this is when the expert well was starting to run dry)

1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Willie Pep
5. Benny Leonard
6. Roberto Duran
7. Henry Armstrong
8. Joe Louis
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Julio Cesar Chavez

Colin Dunne (WBU Lightweight Champ)

1. Roberto Duran
2. Ray Robinson
3. Archie Moore
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Freddie Mills
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Ray Leonard
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
9. Roy Jones Jnr
10. Evander Holyfield

Nobby Nobbs (seriously) - Trainer and Manager

1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Archie Moore
5. Ray Leonard
6. Carlos Monzon
7. Benny Lynch
8. Gene Tunney
9. Sandy Saddler
10. Julio Cesar Chavez

Audley Harrison;

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Ray Robinson
3. Ray Leonard
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Julio Cesar Chavez
6. Mike Tyson
7. George Foreman
8. Jack Johnson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Joe Louis

Kevin Mitchell (Chief Sports Writer of The Observer);

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Ray Robinson
3. Benny Leonard
4. Willie Pep
5. Ray Leonard
6. Jimmy Wilde
7. Henry Armstrong
8. Joe Louis
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Teofilo Stephenson

Roy Jones Jnr;

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Ray Robinson
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Ray Leonard
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Willie Pep
8. Roberto Duran
9. Wilfred Benitez
10. Jersey Joe Walcott

Where to begin eh? Thoughts? Best/Worst list?
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

Absolutely crap just like I and everyone else knew they would be before I/they opened the thread.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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Absolutely crap just like I and everyone else knew they would be before I/they opened the thread.
What inspires them to come up with such bullshit lists though? It cant be lack of knowledge from guys like Steward and Dundee. Bias?
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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What inspires them to come up with such bullshit lists though? It cant be lack of knowledge from guys like Steward and Dundee. Bias?
That's what I don't understand. These guys know more about boxing than anyone here yet produce lists which are so open to ridicule.

Or maybe they're right and everyone here is wrong?
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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What inspires them to come up with such bullshit lists though? It cant be lack of knowledge from guys like Steward and Dundee. Bias?
Trainers and fighters are just that - they don't, unlike you and I, sit down and study fighters, discuss their merits and weigh up their pros and cons.

In boxing there's some 'basic knowledge' that floats round and round in boxing circles and it becomes consensus opinion. Ali or Robinson at #1, Louis, Dempsey and maybe Johnson somewhere in the top ten.

To them, Henry Armstrong was merely a three weight champion and a footnote in history.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

At least these types of opinions confirm at least one of the reasons as to why boxing knowledge is generally on the decline these days. Why let facts ruin nice little myths?
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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Why let facts ruin nice little myths?
How else are you going to keep the old timers relevant.

Lets be fair Jack Dempsey and George Foreman have no business being in the top 10 p4p.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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What inspires them to come up with such bullshit lists though? It cant be lack of knowledge from guys like Steward and Dundee. Bias?
Absolutely, especially in the case of those two.

Dundee was Ali's career-long trainer, and Pep was one of his admitted idols. Hearns was one of the most successful products of Steward's Kronk gym heyday. I doubt its a coincidence that those fighters rated so highly on those guys' lists.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henke67 View Post

What are the biggest surprises (aside from somw of these guys being labelled "experts")?
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henke67 View Post
10. Teofilo Stephenson
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
This:


I guess Mr. Mitchell was inordinately impressed with Teo's demolition of Duane Bobick.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

It's interesting to note that not one 'expert' picked Ezzard Charles in their top 10. Ezzard is a staple in every top 10 list you see today, but he was quite underrated over a decade ago.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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It's interesting to note that not one 'expert' picked Ezzard Charles in their top 10. Ezzard is a staple in every top 10 list you see today, but he was quite underrated over a decade ago.
Especially given that a guy Charles beat 3 out of 3 is in a number of those lists.


BTW, I just noticed some clown put Freddie Mills in his top 10.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

What's most interesting to me...is how Leonard isn't in Angelo's list.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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Especially given that a guy Charles beat 3 out of 3 is in a number of those lists.


BTW, I just noticed some clown put Freddie Mills in his top 10.
At number 5 no less....
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

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What's most interesting to me...is how Leonard isn't in Angelo's list.
Yeah that is interesting.... probably Angelo's attempt to show he's not biased.
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