Steward and Kellerman comment on a super heavyweight divison

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

What four losses are you considering besides Bowe who he fought very competitively with and was leagues above most of the fighters today? Dont tell me Lewis, please, were talking about a prime Holy or Holmes.
Witherspoon and Norton were not super heavies.
Why else do you think Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield and Tyson could compete on the top level against younger fighters in their prime with any type of disadvantage?
Valueav is the text book super heavy and WBA champion and he couldnt even use any of those attributes to offset a 46 year old Holyfield.

Holyfield had numerous excuses throughout his career. He was 1-2 vs Bowe, and 0-1-1 vs Lewis. As I said on a fair card he's 1-4 vs. Bowe and Lewis. If you want to compare Holy to skilled super heavies, we know the results.

I never said Witherpsoon and Norton were super heavies, I said if you consider them super heavies, Holmes had his hands full.

Holmes never fought a true super heavy with skills.

Valuev is old, and was never that good to begin with. He's not a skilled super heavy. He's a gargantuan plodder with little speed, and average power.

The point that Steward made is until recently there were no skilled super heavies. Do you agree with him?

Also it is not a fluke that since Riddick Bowe, the #1 guy out there from 1992 to 2009 has almost always been a super heavy...and this includes an era with Tyson and Holyfield. I do not see that pattern changing anytime soon.

[Polymath]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Holyfield had numerous excuses throughout his career. He was 1-2 vs Bowe, and 0-1-1 vs Lewis. As I said on a fair card he's 1-4 vs. Bowe and Lewis. If you want to compare Holy to skilled super heavies, we know the results.

I never said Witherpsoon and Norton were super heavies, I said if you consider them super heavies, Holmes had his hands full.

Holmes never fought a true super heavy with skills.

Valuev is old, and was never that good to begin with. He's not a skilled super heavy. He's a gargantuan plodder with little speed, and average power.

The point that Steward made is until recently there were no skilled super heavies. Do you agree with him?

Also it is not a fluke that since Riddick Bowe, the #1 guy out there from 1992 to 2009 has almost always been a super heavy...and this includes an era with Tyson and Holyfield. I do not see that pattern changing anytime soon.

Are you suggesting boxing should create a new weight division for Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis?

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Polymath

Are you suggesting boxing should create a new weight division for Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis?

Not at all. I say keep the division the way it is, and do not create super heavyweight division. I also think the days of 210 pound guys being #1 are but a puncher's chance vs. much bigger skilled super heavies.

[Polymath]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Not at all. I say keep the division the way it is, and do not create super heavyweight division. I also think the days of 210 pound guys being #1 are but a puncher's chance vs. much bigger skilled super heavies.

Like...Bowe and Lewis?

[mike_bngs]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

I was watching the Arreola vs. Minto fight on HBO. During the fight Kellerman said he's seen a lot of heavyweight fights, and too often it looks like fighters from different weight classes. While the observation is elementary for Kellerman, I felt Steward nailed it by saying the difference is years ago, there weren't any skilled and coordinated fighters taller than 6'4". That is not the case today.

Steward went so far as to say maybe the heavyweight division should end at 220 pounds, and the super heavyweight division should begin after that.

My thoughts to this are no way! We don't need to dilute the talent at heavyweight, and boxing does not need 4 additional belt holders.

If Minto, who is game as can be wants a chance, he can trim down to 200 on the scales, then re-hydrate to 215 for fight night.

I dont think it would dilute anything, i think i would act as an incentive for alot of HW's to shed the excess pounds. Also and this is a separate argument: if the Klit brothers were not almost always bigger than their opponents would they be in the position they are now?

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

If there was more talented guys, weight wouldnt matter. When you have guys with all the same limited talent, size becomes the only factor. Really sad that has to be the case. Arreola didnt look that much better than Minto and Arreola just took him out because he was bigger and stronger. He didnt do any technical wizardry in there.
Put a prime 213-215 Evander Holyfield or Larry Holmes in that fight and they make Arreola look like a heavybag. Just have to wait for some talent to come along.

I agree 100%. The main reason the bigger guys are winning right now is because now with the lack of talent, the bigger man is going to win because he is on par skill wise with the smaller man. It is pathetic really. These heavyweights can't get it into their minds that maybe if they'd come into the ring in decent shape they would probably beat the bigger guys instead of putting up a good show for 3 rounds then getting killed.

[he grant]

Look there are several factors to consider but the 5'10" Minto looked like a midget in there ...

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by he grant

Look there are several factors to consider but the 5'10" Minto looked like a midget in there ...

What's your best guess on how Haye and Adamek will do at heavy?

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by he grant

Look there are several factors to consider but the 5'10" Minto looked like a midget in there ...

So did Haye against Valueav.

[The Mongoose]

Originally Posted by mike_bngs

if the Klit brothers were not almost always bigger than their opponents would they be in the position they are now?

Not this ridiculious theory again? Wlad is on top because he is the most learned, disciplined, and best conditioned heavyweight out there. McCline, Jefferson, Austin, and Thomas were all roughly the same size as him. In contrast, some of his smallest opponents in Brock and Sultan proved to be his most troubling in recent times.

Ray Austin's tall stature and reach advantage really helping him out against Wlad....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO_sWnawpU4[/ame]

And for the love of all that's holy, Minto lost cause he was a hand picked opponent who was there to lose.