Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-07-2009, 08:39 PM   #16
techks
ATG list Killah!
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ......Bit stalkerish to ask where I live don't ya think?
Posts: 9,592
vCash: 85
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Floyd Patterson, wins over Liston and Ali really would've sealed it.
techks is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-07-2009, 08:40 PM   #17
Bill Butcher
Erik`El Terrible`Morales
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 14,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
You don't think a strong and valid case can be made for Langford or Armstrong??
Their case aint as strong as Robinson`s tho if you take everything into account.

JMO
Bill Butcher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 08:41 PM   #18
Bill Butcher
Erik`El Terrible`Morales
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 14,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iran barkley View Post
Rocky Marciano?


Chers mate, I needed that
Bill Butcher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 08:42 PM   #19
Addie
MAB.
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, England
Posts: 21,045
vCash: 842
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techks View Post
Floyd Patterson, wins over Liston and Ali really would've sealed it.
Addie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 08:44 PM   #20
Popkins
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Robinson is a solid no1 for me & add Muhammad Ali & Willie Pep to that list
Not for me mate, no chance.

Pep was a single-weight champion, that is not the greatest fighter ever by any manner of means IMO. His achievements pale in comparison to those of Henry Armstrong, I can't even envisage a decent argument for having Pep over him, so that rules Willie out in my own rankings.

Ali? Again, I personally can't justify him as a GOAT contender. He has an ATG resume, he has great longevity as a heavyweight, and so with effort you could probably make a decent(ish) argument for him being the equal of Robinson in those respects, but I just don't see Ali as being close to an equal of Robinson in terms of ability. Even Ali at his best was quite clearly an inferior fighter to Ray Robinson.

Therefore, just like the Pep-Armstrong comparison rules out Pep from serious contention for the GOAT placing, the Robinson-Ali comparison rules out Ali.

And I'm left with my five/four again.
Popkins is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 08:46 PM   #21
Popkins
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Their case aint as strong as Robinson`s tho if you take everything into account.

JMO
If you take everything into account, you can make an extremely strong case for Langford IMO.
Popkins is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 08:55 PM   #22
Bill Butcher
Erik`El Terrible`Morales
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 14,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
Not for me mate, no chance.

Pep was a single-weight champion, that is not the greatest fighter ever by any manner of means IMO. His achievements pale in comparison to those of Henry Armstrong, I can't even envisage a decent argument for having Pep over him, so that rules Willie out in my own rankings.

Ali? Again, I personally can't justify him as a GOAT contender. He has an ATG resume, he has great longevity as a heavyweight, and so with effort you could probably make a decent(ish) argument for him being the equal of Robinson in those respects, but I just don't see Ali as being close to an equal of Robinson in terms of ability. Even Ali at his best was quite clearly an inferior fighter to Ray Robinson.

Therefore, just like the Pep-Armstrong comparison rules out Pep from serious contention for the GOAT placing, the Robinson-Ali comparison rules out Ali.

And I'm left with my five/four again.
Fair enough but I think the highlighted part is harsh on the actual ability of Muhammad Ali at his best.

Sure, Robinson was the best fighter that ever lived, complete as they come, as close to perfect as their has been but Ali at his peak is certainly on the same tier, no doubt at all in my mind.
Bill Butcher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 08:58 PM   #23
Bill Butcher
Erik`El Terrible`Morales
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 14,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
If you take everything into account, you can make an extremely strong case for Langford IMO.
Seeing is believing, we will never be able to judge the way we can with say a Duran. Thats why I dont go there regarding the Langford`s & Greb`s.... but I`ll never put them down either... for the exact same reasons.

Bill Butcher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:00 PM   #24
Popkins
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Fair enough but I think the highlighted part is harsh on the actual ability of Muhammad Ali at his best.

Sure, Robinson was the best fighter that ever lived, complete as they come, as close to perfect as their has been but Ali at his peak is certainly on the same tier, no doubt at all in my mind.
Fair enough amigo, but I do disagree. To say someone is in the same tier in my mind means they are of a very, very similar standard, to the point where they are almost interchangeable, where you would not argue with someone who had them in a different order from yourself, but I genuinely don't think of Robinson and Ali like that. Whatever way I think of it, I always have Robinson on top, clearly. I think he was definitely a better fighter, it's not really that close, and they are certainly not interchangeable. JMHO.
Popkins is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:01 PM   #25
Popkins
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Seeing is believing, we will never be able to judge the way we can with say a Duran. Thats why I dont go there regarding the Langford`s & Greb`s.... but I`ll never put them down either... for the exact same reasons.

What about Armstrong then? Considering his achievements (one could argue the greatest achievements of any fighter ever), you don't feel a compelling case can even be made to have him over SRR?
Popkins is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:28 PM   #26
Maxmomer
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,690
vCash: 619
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Robinson deserves the no1 slot tho, no doubt at all.
I rank Greb and Langford over Robinson. Consistently.
Maxmomer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:29 PM   #27
Maxmomer
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,690
vCash: 619
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iran barkley View Post
Rocky Marciano?
Joke?
Maxmomer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:34 PM   #28
WhataRock
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 11,630
vCash: 166
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Pep doesnt have a claim to no1, probably not even top 5 IMO but his resume is far deeper then just who he beat defending his title at his favored weight...Beating some of the best Bantams and Lightweights of the day, and alltime actually.

Armstrong and Robinson have always been my no1 or 2..and Ive swapped them several times.

Greb and Langford have the best argument out of the rest...I certainly dont have any issue with lists that have them at no1.
WhataRock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:37 PM   #29
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
There are only five genuine contenders in my opinion:

Langford, Robinson, Greb, Armstrong and Ezzard Charles.
Agreed 100%. In fact, that's my all-time top 5 P4P right there. The order may be debatable, but I think a top 5 should somehow comprise those fighters.

Personally, I favor Armstrong as the #1 ATG. Greb could probably just as well take that spot, but I hesitate to go that extra step and put him over the others without having actually seen him fight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
Not for me mate, no chance.

Pep was a single-weight champion, that is not the greatest fighter ever by any manner of means IMO. His achievements pale in comparison to those of Henry Armstrong, I can't even envisage a decent argument for having Pep over him, so that rules Willie out in my own rankings.

Ali? Again, I personally can't justify him as a GOAT contender. He has an ATG resume, he has great longevity as a heavyweight, and so with effort you could probably make a decent(ish) argument for him being the equal of Robinson in those respects, but I just don't see Ali as being close to an equal of Robinson in terms of ability. Even Ali at his best was quite clearly an inferior fighter to Ray Robinson.

Therefore, just like the Pep-Armstrong comparison rules out Pep from serious contention for the GOAT placing, the Robinson-Ali comparison rules out Ali.
Agreed again. I don't see Ali and Pep as having cases for the #1 spot, or even being on the same tier as the fighters listed above.
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2009, 09:40 PM   #30
EleventhHour
Got Dat Black & Gold Soul
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 1,262
vCash: 2501
Default Re: Name some fighters who actually have a legit clame to being the best of all time?

Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, Ali, Langford, Pep
EleventhHour is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013