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View Poll Results: Who was greater between RJJ and Sweet Pea?
I say Jones, definitely 5 15.15%
I say Jones, probably but it's debatable 4 12.12%
I say Whitaker, definitely 16 48.48%
I say Whitaker, probably but it's debatable 4 12.12%
Could go either way, I'm not sure enough to say 4 12.12%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-08-2009, 07:42 AM   #1
Boxed Ears
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Default Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Who was greater between the two?

Give me some interesting conversation on this one, guys. I was in the middle of a rabid argument between a batcrap crazy RJJ fan and an equally batcrap crazy Whitaker fan. Some of the arguments I heard the other day (soon after Danny Green and RJJ fought) between these two were interesting and some were just ...stupid. As in:

Friend 1: "Whitaker is a hall of famer. Jones isn't and he won't be the way he's going."
Friend 2: "You're not eligible until you've been retired for five years, dumbass! And it doesn't matter what happens now, of course he's going to be a hall of famer. Danny Green can knock him out 35 times and he'll still be a hall of famer. Shawn f**king Hawk could knock him out a thousand times, he'll still be a hall of famer."
Friend 1: "But he's still NOT a hall of famer! We don't know about Jones till it happens!"
Friend 2: ''...Unbelievable."
Me: "Remember that scene from Coming to America...?"

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Personally I say Whitaker was the better boxer, Jones the greater fighter and I agree with friend 2, that he could get knocked out a thousand times and losses don't erase accomplishments for anybody. It wouldn't change a thing.

Edit:

Okay, to be edited later but let's start tallying up the world champions they each defeated:

RJJ:

1. Jorge Fernando Castro
2. Jorge Vaca
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. James Toney
5. Thulani Malinga
6. Vinny Pazienza
7. Eric Lucas
8. Mike McCallum (IBHOF)
9. Montell Griffin
10. Virgil Hill
11. Lou Del Valle
12. Otis Grant
13. Reggie Johnson
14. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
15. Clinton Woods
16. John Ruiz
17. Antonio Tarver
18. Felix Trinidad
19. Jeff Lacy

Did I miss anybody?

Pea's:



1. Roger Mayweather
2. Greg Haugen
3. Jose Luis Ramirez
4. Azumah Nelson (IBHOF)
5. Juan Nazario
6. Jorge Paez
7. Rafael Pineda
8. Buddy McGirt (twice)
9. Julio Cesar Vasquez
10. Jake Rodriguez
11. Diosbelys Hurtado
Edited to add:
12. Freddie Pendleton
13. Alfredo Layne (thanks, sweet_scientist)

Okay, those are official wins over world champions. Obviously we're missing a lot of context here but Roy has at least the 19 and Whitaker at least the 11.

Last edited by Boxed Ears; 12-08-2009 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

I rate both highly because of the H2H ability and obvious skill...Pea is the better and greater fighter in my eyes.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Its very close, both look not just unbeatable at their best, but near unhittable, Jones has the better offense, Whitaker the better defense, I'd edge towards Jones
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:50 AM   #4
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Friend 1 knows nothing about boxing! Friend 2 seems to know alot more.

In a HTH matchup in their primes Id say Jones would have the perfect style to kick sweat peas but. A combination of power and blinding speed that would traumatize Sweet Pea!! When it comes to ATG status though id have to give it too Whittaker though based on resume,and hes never been KTFod. I could go more in depth if any one wants to argue but im tired right now! Bottom line I put Sweet Pea in my top 10 AtG,and JOnes is somewhere between 15 and 20.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:12 AM   #5
lefthook31
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Both are obvious Hall of Famers thats kind of ridiculous. The style that Jones had allowed him to move up to a higher weight and win at a bigger physical disadvantage. Not sure Pea could ever do that sustained at welterweight, even at his best.
I dont think there is too much difference in ranking them, both were great but for different reasons.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:13 AM   #6
bodhi
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Whitaker and it's not too close. Jones would barely Top40 while Whitaker would be Top30 perhaps even Top20. Whitaker has the superior resume which just weights most for me.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Both are obvious Hall of Famers thats kind of ridiculous. The style that Jones had allowed him to move up to a higher weight and win at a bigger physical disadvantage. Not sure Pea could ever do that sustained at welterweight, even at his best.
I dont think there is too much difference in ranking them, both were great but for different reasons.
For the most part both guys did their legacy defining work over a 15-20 pound span.

Roy from 160-175

Pea from 135-154

He was champ at welterweight for close to 4 years and only had 1 or 2 less defenses of his title there then he did of his lightweight straps.


Of course Jones has the Ruiz win but outside of that their p4p work is pretty similar in terms of the weights they fought across and how long they spent outside their natural weight.

Im not totally sure what you are getting at there left. Is it just the Ruiz fight that makes you feel that Jones was a more effective weight jumper?
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:24 AM   #8
Bill Butcher
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

I voted `Whitaker but debateable`

You would have known this if you ticked the `make votes public` box.


Anyway, both were 2 of the best boxers of all time in a skills & H2H sense, I think Whitaker has the better names on his record & although both were great athlete`s, I think Roy used this athleticism more than Whitaker who IMO relied mostly on his excellent pure boxing skills, I think it showed when both became past prime fighters too, Roy lost badly a few times but Whitaker was giving guys like prime DLH fits & was unlucky not to get that decision - which is remarkable considering how far past prime he was in 97.

Jones won the HWT title, great achievement no doubt but Whitaker was never blown away & just seemed to be a tougher individual when things were against him past his prime + he was the 1st to beat Chavez (I dont even want to see the word `draw` in this thread)

Jones had his share of masterclasses like vs Toney, Pazienza, Ruiz etc but Pea had his vs Chavez, Nelson, Haugen, Ramirez II, Mcgirt II etc.

Everything considered I go for Whitaker, its always debateable pitting anyone vs peak Jones but Whitaker is one of the few that I genuinely feel deserves the nod over him, personally.

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Old 12-08-2009, 08:54 AM   #9
lefthook31
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhataRock View Post
For the most part both guys did their legacy defining work over a 15-20 pound span.

Roy from 160-175

Pea from 135-154

He was champ at welterweight for close to 4 years and only had 1 or 2 less defenses of his title there then he did of his lightweight straps.


Of course Jones has the Ruiz win but outside of that their p4p work is pretty similar in terms of the weights they fought across and how long they spent outside their natural weight.

Im not totally sure what you are getting at there left. Is it just the Ruiz fight that makes you feel that Jones was a more effective weight jumper?
I think being a 5'9 natural middleweight or super middle who walks around in the 175 range, going up and fighting a 200 plus (not just heavyweight) man is far more dangerous, or being at a massive physical disadvantage than a guy who probably always trained down to 135, going up to 54 to win a title.
Also I think a lot of the guys Jones faced at 175 were 200 pounds or more on fight night, whereas Jones probably stayed around the same. Jones physically is a small man. I think many of his opponents were always at a far larger physical advantage over him, and thats what is the difference between the two in my opinion, but doesnt mean I rank Jones higher because of it, but certainly an impressive part of it in my opinion. Thats why I say both were great, Pea certainly has the better resume of name opponents.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Whitaker going up against a beastly Julio Cesar Vasquez is a way more daunting task imo than facing 'the Quiet Man' with a Jones-friendly ref.

Anyway, my answer is Whitaker, but it's arguable. Jones was a phenomenal talent in his prime, and dominated like probably no one since Willie Pep.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

I've edited to add:

RJJ's wins over world champions:

1. Jorge Fernando Castro
2. Jorge Vaca
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. James Toney
5. Thulani Malinga
6. Vinny Pazienza
7. Eric Lucas
8. Mike McCallum (IBHOF)
9. Montell Griffin
10. Virgil Hill
11. Lou Del Valle
12. Otis Grant
13. Reggie Johnson
14. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
15. Clinton Woods
16. John Ruiz
17. Antonio Tarver
18. Felix Trinidad
19. Jeff Lacy


Pea's:

1. Roger Mayweather
2. Greg Haugen
3. Jose Luis Ramirez
4. Azumah Nelson (IBHOF)
5. Juan Nazario
6. Jorge Paez
7. Rafael Pineda
8. Buddy McGirt (twice)
9. Julio Cesar Vasquez
10. Jake Rodriguez
11. Diosbelys Hurtado

Okay, those are official wins over world champions. Obviously we're missing a lot of context here but Roy has at least the 19 and Whitaker at least the 11. Anybody I missed on either guy's list?
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #12
sweet_scientist
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I've edited to add:

RJJ's wins over world champions:

1. Jorge Fernando Castro
2. Jorge Vaca
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. James Toney
5. Thulani Malinga
6. Vinny Pazienza
7. Eric Lucas
8. Mike McCallum (IBHOF)
9. Montell Griffin
10. Virgil Hill
11. Lou Del Valle
12. Otis Grant
13. Reggie Johnson
14. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
15. Clinton Woods
16. John Ruiz
17. Antonio Tarver
18. Felix Trinidad
19. Jeff Lacy


Pea's:

1. Roger Mayweather
2. Greg Haugen
3. Jose Luis Ramirez
4. Azumah Nelson (IBHOF)
5. Juan Nazario
6. Jorge Paez
7. Rafael Pineda
8. Buddy McGirt (twice)
9. Julio Cesar Vasquez
10. Jake Rodriguez
11. Diosbelys Hurtado

Okay, those are official wins over world champions. Obviously we're missing a lot of context here but Roy has at least the 19 and Whitaker at least the 11. Anybody I missed on either guy's list?
Freddie Pendleton and Alfredo Layne for Pea. But yeah, the 'context' is what swings it Whitaker's way for me, becuase it involves the names Chavez, DLH and Ramirez.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Whitaker was greater. Who was better is tougher.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
Whitaker going up against a beastly Julio Cesar Vasquez is a way more daunting task imo than facing 'the Quiet Man' with a Jones-friendly ref.

Anyway, my answer is Whitaker, but it's arguable. Jones was a phenomenal talent in his prime, and dominated like probably no one since Willie Pep.
I know they have Roy Jones listed at 5'11 but man Ive been next to the guy and he is tiny. Ive also been around guys like Tarver and Richard Hall, and theyre friggen giants. Guys like Gonzalez, Ruiz, Telesco, Harding, were all 6 foot plus, and all looked much more natural at their respected weight and size. Jones to me always looked like a middleweight.
Jones couldnt afford to take any clean punches, whereas Pea probably could at 54, not to mention he only had one fight there, and Jones had several at LH.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr or Pernell Whitaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
I know they have Roy Jones listed at 5'11 but man Ive been next to the guy and he is tiny. Ive also been around guys like Tarver and Richard Hall, and theyre friggen giants. Guys like Gonzalez, Ruiz, Telesco, Harding, were all 6 foot plus, and all looked much more natural at their respected weight and size. Jones to me always looked like a middleweight.
Jones couldnt afford to take any clean punches, whereas Pea probably could at 54, not to mention he only had one fight there, and Jones had several at LH.

Jones definitely looked smaller than a good chunk of his LH opp, but Pea did as well at welterweight. Even as a lightweight Whitaker looked small next to the likes of Pendleton, Mayweather, Ramirez.
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