Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2009, 08:21 AM   #1
nastynas
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 1000
Default any information on cocoa kid?

for such a great champion, there sure is little info on him. Is he alive? Who was he really? Why did he go to Mexico City to fight Kid Azteca so many times? With all those fights against Holman Williams did they develop any relationship?

Was he born in PR or just of PR descent? He had several aliases Ive read. What's his relation to the black murderer's row?

Anyone know?
nastynas is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-08-2009, 09:46 AM   #2
cotto20
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynas View Post
for such a great champion, there sure is little info on him. Is he alive? Who was he really? Why did he go to Mexico City to fight Kid Azteca so many times? With all those fights against Holman Williams did they develop any relationship?

Was he born in PR or just of PR descent? He had several aliases Ive read. What's his relation to the black murderer's row?

Anyone know?
I heard the mafia had a strong hold on kid, cocca was part of the muderer's row
cotto20 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 09:49 AM   #3
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,368
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

CK is one of the more controversial figures in boxing history. He wore the cuffs for the mob and certainly threw a fight (proven) and probably fights. Even his ancestry is up for debate as there are those that think he was a Cuban who travelled as a Rican in order to be allowed to stay in the US. His original name was Hardwick, and Boxrec has now amalgamated those two records where there used to be one for each - Hardwick was supposedly a Cuban.

If CK's domination off Williams is a fairer reflection upon his quality than his win/loss record (and Kid went to the tank more than once, almost certainly) he was probably one of the most talented fighters in history.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 09:55 AM   #4
cotto20
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
CK is one of the more controversial figures in boxing history. He wore the cuffs for the mob and certainly threw a fight (proven) and probably fights. Even his ancestry is up for debate as there are those that think he was a Cuban who travelled as a Rican in order to be allowed to stay in the US. His original name was Hardwick, and Boxrec has now amalgamated those two records where there used to be one for each - Hardwick was supposedly a Cuban.

If CK's domination off Williams is a fairer reflection upon his quality than his win/loss record (and Kid went to the tank more than once, almost certainly) he was probably one of the most talented fighters in history.
If he was willing to throw fights for the mafia, why didnt they ever reward him with a title shot? i can see why burley never done business with them, after seeing what they did to cocoa's career
cotto20 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 12:23 PM   #5
TheGreatA
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,098
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
TheGreatA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 01:35 PM   #6
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,881
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

allen rosenfeld told me he had a copy of cocoas licensed and he signed it louis hardwick arroyo

1. Charley Burley, The Life & Hard Times of an Uncrowned Champion by Allen Rosenfeld (Paperback - Oct 21, 2003)
SLAKKA is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 03:38 PM   #7
nastynas
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iran barkley View Post
If he was willing to throw fights for the mafia, why didnt they ever reward him with a title shot? i can see why burley never done business with them, after seeing what they did to cocoa's career
Well, he did have 3 "colored" championships.
nastynas is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 03:42 PM   #8
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,368
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iran barkley View Post
If he was willing to throw fights for the mafia, why didnt they ever reward him with a title shot? i can see why burley never done business with them, after seeing what they did to cocoa's career
Cocoa Kid did get a shot at the title.

But generally guys who played ball were rewarded with dollars. The idea that a dive comes before a title shot isn't that concrete. I think it's fostered, in part, by the Ragin Bull picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAKKA View Post
allen rosenfeld told me he had a copy of cocoas licensed and he signed it louis hardwick arroyo

1. Charley Burley, The Life & Hard Times of an Uncrowned Champion by Allen Rosenfeld (Paperback - Oct 21, 2003)
Nice detail SLAKKA, thank you.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 03:46 PM   #9
nastynas
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

I found this:

Whilst conducting research for my book on the life and career of Charley Burley I discovered a great deal about some of the better fighters that Burley crossed gloves with. Fighters such as Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall, Eddie Booker and Jack Chase had good careers, were well-known in their day and had a life and career arc that can readily be followed. However, another of this group of highly talented black fighters is something of an enigma.

According to the record books, Cocoa Kid, (aka Louis Hardwick), was born in January 1913 in Puerto Rico. He fought (depending on who you believe), between 1929 or 1930 to 1948 and took part in some 240-odd bouts. Among the fighters he met were most of the above mentioned ‘Black Murderers’ Row’ along with talented contenders Archie Moore, Lou Ambers and Georgie Abrams. Whilst the names of Moore, Ambers and Abrams may be the most readily recognised by boxing fans, to boxing historians the rest of the Kids record reads like a who’s-who of 1930s and 40s boxing talent: Jimmy Leto, Eddie Dolan, Kid Azteca, Andre Jessurun, Saverio Turiello, Izzy Jannazzo, Joe Carter, Bert Lytell and Earl Turner are just a few of the many ranked fighters he met.

What is puzzling about the Cocoa Kid is less to do with his record and undoubted skills and talent and more about who he was, where he really came from and where he went. Fight manager and Ring magazine columnist Jersey Jones claimed that Cocoa Kid travelled from Cuba with Kid Chocolate in 1928 to get fights in the United States. A study of Kid Chocolate's fights in the USA at that time reveals that at least two other Cuban fighters were on the undercards; they were Juan Cepero and Baby Face Quintera. Kid Chocolate was eventually deported to Cuba for failure to renew his visitor status and was active there before returning to America at a later date. Baby Face Quintera also returned to Cuba (evidenced by recorded fights there in the early 1930s), but - as yet - there is no trace of Cepero in Cuba after 1929.

The notion that Cepero changed his name to Louis Hardwick and claimed Puerto Rican nationality is given further weight by the fact that Cepero boxed in December 1929 (in New York), then apparently disappeared, while Hardwick (as Cocoa Kid), has his first fight in January 1930. Early photos of Cocoa Kid also show a similarity in personal style and appearance to the Cuban Bon-Bon. Was Cocoa Kid sufficiently influenced by Kid Chocolate to take his name as well as his look? Hardwick is an unusual name for a Puerto Rican national, although the area he claimed to be from, Mayaguez, is predominantly white. Press reports from the New York Times in December 1929 describe Cepero as being similar in build to Panama Al Brown. The reporter could well be describing Cocoa Kid who was also tall and rangy for a lightweight (though he would mature into the heavier classes as he aged).

It is an interesting theory that is supported by a number of boxing historians and it does hold some water. However, eminent boxing historian Luckett V. Davis insists that, while the confusion is understandable, there is no truth to the rumour that Juan Cepero and Cocoa Kid are the same person. Davis insists that Louis Hardwick is Cocoa Kid and that he fought prior to 1930 as Lou Hardwick. However, the only Lou Hardwick of the time was a black fighter from the south who was described in one report as 'the Atlanta Negro' and in another as favouring a slugging style. Further speculation is caused by the fact that Cocoa Kid referred to himself as either Louis Hardwick, Louis Arroyo or Louis Humberto depending on which newspaper reporter he was speaking to. If he were a legitimate Puerto Rican immigrant to the United States, why the different names? Former lightweight con tender Wesley Ramey defeated Cocoa Kid in 1933 and often used him as a sparring partner. His son - Wesley Ramey Jnr. – remembers that, to the best of his knowledge, Cocoa Kid was a Cuban fighter. Many newspaper reports from early in Cocoa Kid’s career also refer to him as Cuban.

Whatever his origin, Louis Hardwick was based in Hartford, Connecticut and, as Cocoa Kid, was high-class operator. He had beaten Jack Portney, Werther Arcelli, Pancho Villa, Andre Jessurun and Teddy Loder. He had also met Lou Ambers, losing over ten rounds and had a loss and a draw versus Kid Azteca. Amongst his more widely known opponents was the slick-boxing Holman Williams, against whom Cocoa Kid engaged in thirteen contests; winning eight, losing three and drawing in two. In their 4th meeting in New Orleans (12th March, 1937), Cocoa Kid won over 15 rounds and claimed the Colored Welterweight Championship of the World and the belt that went with it. After a further ten wins and five defeats in around 18 months, the Kid lost the ‘championship’ to the fast-rising Charley Burley of Pittsburgh (Burley would lose the title – but, strangely, not the belt – back to Holman Williams just over a year later).

A more meaningfull title opportunity came the Kids way in October, 1940 when he opposed Izzy Jannazo for the welterweight championship (Maryland version). He lost via a split decision over 15 rounds and – like many of his contemporaries - was never provided the chance again. The remainder of the 1940s was largely about eking out a living fighting the rest of the contenders for middleweight honours whilst the title was frozen for the duration of the war. Whilst he may have had a few miles on the clock at 30 years of age, 14 years as a pro and roughly 180 fights under his belt, the Kid still had plenty left. After his second bout with Charley Burley (a draw in 1943), Cocoa Kid had enough to beat Holman Williams (again), Jack Chase, Joe Carter, Cecil Hudson and Gene Buffalo (who was himself a veteran by that point). Other top-flight opposition in his waning years included ‘Oakland’ Billy Smith, Archie Moore and Bert Lytell. Cocoa Kid called it a day in 1948 after losing to Bobby Mann in Trenton, New Jersey.

Although his competitive years were apparently behind him, he was often hired as a sparring partner and on one occasion was brought in to help Sugar Ray Robinson to prepare for a fight with Steve Belloise in 1949. Robinson learned that you couldn’t afford to take liberties with a fighter of the Kid’s caliber when an overhand right dropped him in one of their sessions.

Of the many talented black fighters that inhabited the same time and space as Charley Burley, Cocoa Kid is the only one to get a shot at a world championship. The fact that he got a shot at a ‘title’ didn’t elevate Cocoa Kid’s status, reputation or place in boxing history. It apparently did little of anything for this most talented of welterweights as he reportedly spent his later years ghosting around the seedy shadows of New York’s Times Square begging for money to feed his drug habit.

So what really became of Louis Hardwick, Louis Humberto, Louis Arroyo (or Juan Cepero), AKA ‘The Cocoa Kid’? He was reported as speaking several languages and claimed to have a daughter who was in college and two sons whom he hoped wouldn’t go into the ring. In a 1948 interview for the Chicago Tribune he told reporter Robert Cromie:

“If I had to do it over again, I’d still be a fighter. I had a good time about it and I still have my health. If the worst comes to the worst I can still work. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I’m not robbing or sticking people up”.

This doesn’t sound like the kind of man to end up on the streets, dependant upon dope and I for one hope it is not true. Perhaps we will never know.
nastynas is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 03:48 PM   #10
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,368
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Is that from the Harry Otty site?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 04:48 PM   #11
GPater11093
Barry
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 19,025
vCash: 836
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

very good that
GPater11093 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 05:29 PM   #12
nastynas
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Is that from the Harry Otty site?
cyber box
nastynas is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 06:37 PM   #13
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,881
vCash: 1000
Default Re: any information on cocoa kid?

Speaking of late in Cocoas career, once at the Brooklyn Lib I quickly read the write ups vs Pete Mead, in the record books as a loss but it sounds like another robbery.
SLAKKA is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013