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Old 10-02-2007, 12:36 AM   #1
redrooster
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Default crappy chins part 3

zab judah

edwin rosario

floyd patterson
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Originally Posted by redrooster
zab judah

edwin rosario

floyd patterson
Why exactly did Patterson have a crappy chin per say? I mean the guy was stopped 5 times in 64 pro fights. At least 4 of those stoppages came against two all time greats ( Ali and Liston ), plus a 5th time against a pretty good puncher in Ingemar Johanson.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Why exactly did Patterson have a crappy chin per say? I mean getting knocked out by Sonny Liston and Ingemar Johanson isn't like getting beat by someone who can't punch.

Floyd was similar to Rosario-kill or be killed.

two consecutive first round knockout losses to the same man does wonders for your reputation.

Good thing rocky retired before Floyd got a title shot.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Floyd was similar to Rosario-kill or be killed.

two consecutive first round knockout losses to the same man does wonders for your reputation.
I understand that, but how does being knocked out by an all time great puncher like Sonny Liston mean that you're a chinny fighter? Lot's of guys got crushed by Liston, plus Floyd was somewhat small for a heavyweight, making his legacy even greater that he surivived the heavyweight ranks in my opnion.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
zab judah

edwin rosario

floyd patterson
Sometimes it isnt so much a glass jaw but as Tony Zale said a "glass heart"eg Bruce Seldon,there was nothing wrong with Floyds ticker ,he went down a lot but also got up a lot.how many times was he actually counted ten over?
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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I understand that, but how does being knocked out by an all time great puncher like Sonny Liston mean that you're a chinny fighter? Lot's of guys got crushed by Liston, plus Floyd was somewhat small for a heavyweight, making his legacy even greater that he surivived the heavyweight ranks in my opnion.

Floyd had this problem going back to his amateur days and Muhammud took him (liston) no sweat-didn't go down once. He destroyed Sunny.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

Norris was surely in part 1. He made china look solid.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

Norris is an all time great with stunning speed and reflexes and a chin far superior to Rosario who was always getting flattened in the ring except for Chavez who was having an off night.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Norris is an all time great with stunning speed and reflexes and a chin far superior to Rosario who was always getting flattened in the ring except for Chavez who was having an off night.
Rosario had a substancially better chin than Norris. Norris was the definition of brittle.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Rosario had a substancially better chin than Norris. Norris was the definition of brittle.
Rosario is an embarassment to hispanics everywhere. He never could hold onto a title because his chin kept getting in the way.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Originally Posted by redrooster
Floyd had this problem going back to his amateur days and Muhammud took him (liston) no sweat-didn't go down once. He destroyed Sunny.
What does Ali's beating Liston have to do with my question regarding Floyd having a weak chin?

I'm still not convinced that Patterson's chin was glass. I'll repeat what I said before. Patterson was a veteran of 62 pro fights. In all those matches, he was stopped by only 3 men. Two of them were all time great champions ( Ali and Liston ), while the third was a better than average puncher in Johanson. I don't know how this defines a guy as being chinny, especially given the super acheivments that Floyd put together for his size.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
What does Ali's beating Liston have to do with my question regarding Floyd having a weak chin?

I'm still not convinced that Patterson's chin was glass. I'll repeat what I said before. Patterson was a veteran of 62 pro fights. In all those matches, he was stopped by only 3 men. Two of them were all time great champions ( Ali and Liston ), while the third was a better than average puncher in Johanson. I don't know how this defines a guy as being chinny, especially given the super acheivments that Floyd put together for his size.
Clearly, Patterson had a fairly decent chin or he could not have risen to a world title. Compared to other heavyweight champions, however, his chin was not very good. I think he certainly rates in the bottom ten.

Heres the poorest lineal champions in ko'd by percentage:
1. Leon Spinks (9-46 or 1 in 5)
2. Douglas (5-46 or 1 in 9)
3. Hart (5-48 or 1 in 10)
4. Tyson (5-58 or 1 in 12)
5. Willard (3-35 or 1 in 12)
6. Walcott (6-71 or 1 in 12)
7. Frazier (3-37 or 1 in 12
8. Rahman (4-51 or 1 in 13)
9. Patterson (5-64 or 1 in 13)

Here's a list of 1 round ko'd by's suffered by heavyweight champions in their entire careers:

1. Hart ko'd by Hanrahan
2. Dempsey ko'd by Flynn
3. Schmeling ko'd by Daniels
4. Schmeling ko'd by Louis
5. Walcott ko'd by Marciano
6. Patterson ko'd by Liston
7. Patterson ko'd by Liston
8. Liston ko'd by Ali
9. Leon Spinks ko'd by Coetzee
10. M Spinks ko'd by Tyson
11. Douglas ko'd by Savarese
12. Moorer ko'd by Tua

This is a list of ko'd by suffered by lineal heavyweight champions to the up to the age of 30:

1. 4 ko'd by--Schmeling, Carnera, Patterson, Douglas
2. 3 ko'd by--Walcott, Leon Spinks, Rahman
3. 2 ko'd by--Fitzsimmons, Hart, Johnson, Baer, Charles, Johansson, Tyson, Moorer

Not only is Patterson on all the lists, as the last one shows, he is unique in suffering four crushing stoppages in his prime. He was stopped four times between the ages of 24 and 30. Yes, Liston could punch, but in his other 52 bouts, Liston scored 6 first round knockouts. Patterson constituted 25% of his first round knockout victims.

Of the one round knockout defeats, most of the other champions suffered this disaster when either green or getting old or being downright old. Only Patterson and Leon Spinks were taken out in the first round between the ages of 23 and 31 and Patterson is unique in going out twice.

On balance--of the 36 lineal champions, Patterson is certainly in the bottom ten for chin, and a strong candidate for the bottom five.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 10-02-2007 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

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Old 10-02-2007, 04:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

Carnera seemed like he went down a lot.
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Old 10-06-2007, 02:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: crappy chins part 3

Don't forget Lennox Lewis - only HW champion to suffer two early-rounds KO losses to mediocre contenders while he held the title.
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