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View Poll Results: Foreman or Liston?
Foreman, by KO/TKO 12 29.27%
Foreman, on pts 0 0%
Liston, by KO/TKO 23 56.10%
Liston, on pts 6 14.63%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-25-2007, 06:10 AM   #1
Holmes' Jab
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Default George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

15 rounds, at their respective best. Who prevails?


* This matchup has most likely been done before, but IIRC I haven't seen it mentioned since the older batch of posts disappeared some months ago. Either way it's another chance to state your pick n' reasons why.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

I'll take Liston to prevail, providing he boxes smartly behind that jab. After weathering initial Foreman pressure, Liston starts to gain the upper hand in the exchanges and stops a tiring Foreman late on (whilst being a few rounds up on the cards).

If Liston elects to slug to-toe-toe with Foreman though, I think this would be a wrong tactic. He could well be in be in big trouble should this situation unfold- I don't think Sonny would fall into this trap, though.

Liston TKO10 Foreman.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Foreman, KO. I don't see Liston being able to deal with his physical advantages any better than Frazier did.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

George idolized Sonny and told a funny story that I read somewhere.

He said that he (George) used to really beat up on his sparring partners, accept when he was sparring with Liston. Once, he really hit Sonny with some monster shot, and Sonny just casually said "No son" and hit him back with a worse one.

Who would have won? I don't know. George never really did have a prime since he didn;t learn to pace himself until he was almost 40 years old. If you could brind Sonny back to life and put George through a time machine and put them in the ring, I would say George. If you are literally talikng about putting the Geroge who destroyed Frasier againdt the Liston that destryed Patterson, I would say Liston because of his vast experiece against guys like Clevland Willaims, Eddie Machon and Zora Foley.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboDs
Foreman, KO. I don't see Liston being able to deal with his physical advantages any better than Frazier did.
What physical advantages are you refering to? The weighed around the same, Liston was physically larger (bigger biceps, chest, fist etc.) and probably there would be very little difference in terms of reach, although on paper, Liston edges it.

I think you'll have to go a little deeper with your analysis than "Foreman was two inches taller".
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
What physical advantages are you refering to? The weighed around the same, Liston was physically larger (bigger biceps, chest, fist etc.) and probably there would be very little difference in terms of reach, although on paper, Liston edges it.

I think you'll have to go a little deeper with your analysis than "Foreman was two inches taller".
Agreed. Liston and Foreman are evenly matched on the physicality’s. The difference here is Liston has better skills. I think Liston wins, likely via mid round TKO.

Foreman and Liston sparred a bit. Foreman said he was annoyed that Liston could take his punches.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Liston and Foreman are evenly matched on the physicality’s. The difference here is Liston has better skills. I think Liston wins, likely via mid round TKO.
This is pretty much how I see it.

Quote:
Foreman and Liston sparred a bit. Foreman said he was annoyed that Liston could take his punches.
I also have Foreman saying that the only time he was "stopped dead" by a punch was against Liston in sparring. Unfortunatley, it's just a throw-away, and not dated.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
What physical advantages are you refering to? The weighed around the same, Liston was physically larger (bigger biceps, chest, fist etc.) and probably there would be very little difference in terms of reach, although on paper, Liston edges it.

I think you'll have to go a little deeper with your analysis than "Foreman was two inches taller".
I think he means this:

When Liston was 20, he weighed 200lb.
When Foreman was 20, he weighed 215lb.

When Liston was 30, he weighed 212lb.
When Foreman was 30, he weighed 230lb.

When Liston was nearing 40, he weighed 220lb.
When Foreman was nearing 40, he weighed 240-260lb (yes, with a lot of fat).


Foreman is 6'3 1/2 or 6'4
Liston is 6'0 or 6'0 1/2


Liston has a 84 inch reach, but that is more wide shoulders than long reach. Cleveland Williams clearly has longer arms on film, and he's 6'3 with an 80" reach. Foreman's arms look very long on film and he's taller.


The difference is that with the exception of Williams and Ali (who both made Liston look quite small), Liston faced a lot of small guys, whereas Foreman faced a lot of big guys (Lyle, Norton, Ali, etc) which makes him look less big.

But make no mistake, Foreman definitly was the bigger man.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

[quote=Mendoza]Agreed. Liston and Foreman are evenly matched on the physicality’s. The difference here is Liston has better skills. I think Liston wins, likely via mid round TKO. [quote]

Almost spot on with this. I think Foreman's sturdy chin and durabilty would take him through to the later rounds- before being stopped.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:19 AM   #10
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think he means this:

When Liston was 20, he weighed 200lb.
When Foreman was 20, he weighed 215lb.

When Liston was 30, he weighed 212lb.
When Foreman was 30, he weighed 230lb.
No disrespct bro, but so what?

If we're interested in the peak men, we'll take Liston from around about Patterson - 213 - and Foreman from Frazier - 217 - and we find a negligable difference. I'm not prepared to accept that Foreman was "bigger" because he four pounds heavier. If you want you can match up Foreman from the Hollyfield fight - about 250 - with Patterson era Liston. Here Foreman is certainly the bigger man but he'll get the shit kicked out of him.


Quote:
Foreman is 6'3 1/2 or 6'4
Liston is 6'0 or 6'0 1/2
He certainly is taller. The tale of the tape also show he has smaller fists, calves, thighs, forearms pretty much everything aside from waist.

Foreman was taller and heavier (peak for peak) by the size of an evenly weighed shit (if you drink black and tan), but in terms of physicality was smaller.

There's very little difference worth arguing about in my view.


Quote:
Liston has a 84 inch reach, but that is more wide shoulders than long reach. Cleveland Williams clearly has longer arms on film, and he's 6'3 with an 80" reach. Foreman's arms look very long on film and he's taller.
I said that on paper Liston has the bigger reach and that in reality there wouldn't be much in it, i'm happy with that surmise.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:32 AM   #11
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

I've made a lengthy post on this one a couple of times, but Liston stops Foreman in about 7 rounds. Tighter and straighter punching as well as having power and strength somewhere close to George. Better boxer too. He would also be one of the few guys in history who could attack Foreman's body with a degree of success.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I've made a lengthy post on this one a couple of times, but Liston stops Foreman in about 7 rounds. Tighter and straighter punching as well as having power and strength somewhere close to George. Better boxer too. He would also be one of the few guys in history who could attack Foreman's body with a degree of success.
Good points.

Liston's ram-rod jab straight down the pipe would give Foreman fit's: he won't neccessarily have to brawl it out with Foreman, as his boxing ability on the outside is superior. Sonny would aim to make Foreman fight his fight and then pick him off as the openings appear (Foreman is no defensive genius).

The fight wouldn't be a straightfoward cakewalk by any stretch of the imagination, but there are just more options for Liston to win here than vice-versa.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I've made a lengthy post on this one a couple of times, but Liston stops Foreman in about 7 rounds. Tighter and straighter punching as well as having power and strength somewhere close to George. Better boxer too. He would also be one of the few guys in history who could attack Foreman's body with a degree of success.
Excellent post especially the last bit. I have Liston winning in the 6th or 7th round myself.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
No disrespct bro, but so what?

If we're interested in the peak men, we'll take Liston from around about Patterson - 213 - and Foreman from Frazier - 217 - and we find a negligable difference. I'm not prepared to accept that Foreman was "bigger" because he four pounds heavier. If you want you can match up Foreman from the Hollyfield fight - about 250 - with Patterson era Liston. Here Foreman is certainly the bigger man but he'll get the shit kicked out of him.




He certainly is taller. The tale of the tape also show he has smaller fists, calves, thighs, forearms pretty much everything aside from waist.

Foreman was taller and heavier (peak for peak) by the size of an evenly weighed shit (if you drink black and tan), but in terms of physicality was smaller.

There's very little difference worth arguing about in my view.




I said that on paper Liston has the bigger reach and that in reality there wouldn't be much in it, i'm happy with that surmise.
No disrespect taken, but i would like to point out that anything over 213lb was pretty meant being out of shape for Liston, whereas Foreman had no problem carrying over 226lb.



This fight is a really hard one to call, by the way. I used to have the same position most posters here have, that Liston's technical ability and chin would get him through, to a late stoppage. But lately i like Foreman by stoppage. Williams, the only big and powerful opponent that Liston fought, had no trouble landing so i think Foreman definitly has a chance to be more succesful. Of course you can also turn that logic around and say that Lyle, Foreman's only big, powerful (in fact, Lyle was not THAT powerful i think) hit Foreman plenty, too, and nearly stopped him. So it's really hard to call this fight.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: George Foreman -vs- Sonny Liston

Difficult pick.

If Liston uses his jab, defense and superior boxing skills without being lured into a slugfest with Foreman, then I'd pick him to win probably by mid to late round stoppage or knockout. On the otherhand, if Sonny makes himself available to get hit by George, who was far more powerful and dangerous than anyone Sonny ever traded with, then I might be inclined to favour George. Of course some may argue that trading with Sonny could be just as big of a mistake for Foreman, but personally I think Foreman wins a mid to close range match. He knocked out a lot more guys who were bigger and stronger than a lot of the men Liston beat coming up.

Last edited by Max Molyneux; 07-03-2006 at 10:09 AM.
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