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Old 09-27-2007, 07:40 PM   #1
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Default Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Excuse me

Can somebody break down, Muhammad Ali's legacy for me. His best achievements, and why he is the greatest Heavyweight of all-time. I want to become more educated on the actual ring achievments and how they ranked against other great heavyweights.

Also i would appreciate if somebody could break down the achievements/legacy of Roy Jones Junior.

Thank You Very Much.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Easy. Ali is God. You must worshipped 3 times a day and hold a feast in his honor. You must kiss the ground Ali walks on. And if you are on the ground Ali walks on, you must take off your shoes.

Dont be shock when they make Ali a saint.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR KOOL
Excuse me

Can somebody break down, Muhammad Ali's legacy for me. His best achievements, and why he is the greatest Heavyweight of all-time. I want to become more educated on the actual ring achievments and how they ranked against other great heavyweights.

Also i would appreciate if somebody could break down the achievements/legacy of Roy Jones Junior.

Thank You Very Much.
Ali is beloved today more for nostagia among the aging baby-boomers, his wit, his beauty, his uplifting a downtrodden people at the same time that Malcolm was doing the same, and his stance on the Vietnam war. He is a world figure. Ali's presence is akin to the Dalai Lama's. For those of us who know better, that is curious.

As for his legacy in the ring, he faced monsters like Liston and Foreman and destroyed them both. He beat many quality fighters in the 60s including Cooper, Patterson, Folley, Chuvalo, Terrell, Williams, et al. The beauty of him in that decade was not so much his conquests as his savage grace, speed, and mobility. He was a true phenomenon in terms of natural talent/athleticism.

In the 70s, his conquests were more formidable -Quarry, Bonavena, Norton, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, etc. and it was more incredible because the first thing to go on a boxer is speed and reflexes. Ali was not the same... but even sans the demon speed, Ali's heart was exposed and it was three sizes too big.

The world watched as age sapped his youthful powers and found in his latter struggles and triumphs the stuff of inspiration. The sagging pectorals and the graying hair in their mirrors were not so lamentable because Ali showed them ....age and guile can defeat youth and speed.

Ali is a legend.

Jones, though a great fighter, is comparatively a midget.

My apologies to Jones' many fans out here. I readily acknowledge that Jones' natural abilities damn near matched Ali's. They were enough to see him overcome two (that's TWO in career that was as long as Ali's) truly formidable challenges in Hopkins and Toney -but he had neither the heart, nor the will, nor the conquests, nor the fearlessness of Ali.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Ali is beloved today more for nostagia among the aging baby-boomers, his wit, his beauty, his uplifting a downtrodden people at the same time that Malcolm was doing the same, and his stance on the Vietnam war. He is a world figure. Ali's presence is akin to the Dalai Lama's. For those of us who know better, that is curious.

As for his legacy in the ring, he faced monsters like Liston and Foreman and destroyed them both. He beat many quality fighters in the 60s including Cooper, Patterson, Folley, Chuvalo, Terrell, Williams, et al. The beauty of him in that decade was not so much his conquests as his savage grace, speed, and mobility. He was a true phenomenon in terms of natural talent/athleticism.

In the 70s, his conquests were more formidable -Quarry, Bonavena, Norton, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, etc. and it was more incredible because the first thing to go on a boxer is speed and reflexes. Ali was not the same... but even sans the demon speed, Ali's heart was exposed and it was three sizes too big.

The world watched as age sapped his youthful powers and found in his latter struggles and triumphs the stuff of inspiration. The sagging pectorals and the graying hair in their mirrors were not so lamentable because Ali showed them ....age and guile can defeat youth and speed.

Ali is a legend.

Jones, though a great fighter, is comparatively a midget.

My apologies to Jones' many fans out here. I readily acknowledge that Jones' natural abilities damn near matched Ali's. They were enough to see him overcome two (that's TWO in career that was as long as Ali's) truly formidable challenges in Hopkins and Toney -but he had neither the heart, nor the will, nor the conquests, nor the fearlessness of Ali.

Thank You

How does Muhammad Ali's legacy compare to Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield.

Muhammad Ali has beaten more all-time greats than any other heavyweight in history?

Carry on and feel free to educate me with more facts, because i am going to compile it all together, and totally set afew people right elsewhere.
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

You are thanking him for misinforming you about "quality" and "formidable" opposition of Ali? His opposition was mediocre or plain bad most of the time (some of his title defenses were against tomato cans), and even the quality opponents he beat were past their prime.
Such as, Cooper was a European bum (Ali's own words), Patterson had a sore back, Chuvalo was a journeyman, Terrell was one-eyed, Williams was a shell of a good fighter after having been shot to the abdomen, Quarry was a journeyman, same for Bonavena, Norton was a "safe" pick trying to build up another title shot, Frazier was good the 1st time, but was past or far past his prime the 2nd and 3rd times respectively, Foreman hadn't achieved anything outside of two wins over past his prime Frazier, and was a perfect example of padded record both the 1st and the 2nd parts of his career, Shavers was a journeyman with not skills, chin or stamina, only a big punch, and Lyle was a fringe contender.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

How about a reality-based approach, Senya? Your post is complete crap.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

How about actually looking at the condition and achievements of each fighter at the time of the fight, instead of just listing popular names? Otherwise it's like saying Tommy Tibbs, Victor Leon and Calvin Woodland were great fighters, 'coz they beat Willie Pep, or Stan Harrington was great because he beat Sugar Ray Robinson twice.
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
You are thanking him for misinforming you about "quality" and "formidable" opposition of Ali? His opposition was mediocre or plain bad most of the time (some of his title defenses were against tomato cans), and even the quality opponents he beat were past their prime.
Such as, Cooper was a European bum (Ali's own words), Patterson had a sore back, Chuvalo was a journeyman, Terrell was one-eyed, Williams was a shell of a good fighter after having been shot to the abdomen, Quarry was a journeyman, same for Bonavena, Norton was a "safe" pick trying to build up another title shot, Frazier was good the 1st time, but was past or far past his prime the 2nd and 3rd times respectively, Foreman hadn't achieved anything outside of two wins over past his prime Frazier, and was a perfect example of padded record both the 1st and the 2nd parts of his career, Shavers was a journeyman with not skills, chin or stamina, only a big punch, and Lyle was a fringe contender.
That may be the silliest post I've seen in months.

Senya can be expected to post a masturbatory bonanza of Jones' record any hour now -and it would be more ridiculous than this one. .
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I'd say physically Jones was better than Ali actually, but otherwise agree.
I might agree with you here... but Ali's size made him a rarer item, and no one outdoes his rythym. Jones's combination of fast-twitch speed and power rival Tyson's but it is a damn shame that we never saw how far it would take him against challenges. Pazmanians prove nothing.

Last edited by Mankind; 07-07-2006 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

The silliest posts come from Ali's nut-huggers, not from me. Such as Ali "destroying" (past his prime) Liston, in two obviously fixed fights, first being evenly contested and the second a disgrace to the sport. Or claiming Williams was a quality fighter when Ali beat him. That was the most stupid claim in that post.

Last edited by RuMbLe; 07-07-2006 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
How about actually looking at the condition and achievements of each fighter at the time of the fight, instead of just listing popular names? Otherwise it's like saying Tommy Tibbs, Victor Leon and Calvin Woodland were great fighters, 'coz they beat Willie Pep, or Stan Harrington was great because he beat Sugar Ray Robinson twice.
Some of what you say is true, but the way I see it, Ali beat prime or near prime versions of Liston, Foreman, Quarry, Norton, Frazier, and Lyle. Maybe not Frazier, but still this is a great legacy. You can't say the entire lot of Ali's opponents were soft touches. Guys like Copper and Wepner, ok, but not the above names
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Liston fights were fixed, not a "beat him" kind of fights. Foreman had a grat potential, but had no significant achievements outside of Frazier win. Quarry was a mediocre contender, Ken Norton was a journeyman (who was a safe pick, like I said, Ali was building up his confidence at the time, TV didn't even want to buy that fight, so meaningless it was considered to be). Frazier in 2nd and 3rd fights was far from his prime. Lyle was a fringe contender, slightly above mediocre fighter with little achievements.
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Ali was a great fighter and to doubt his record is stupid, if his record is weak what fighters have got good records???
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:29 AM   #14
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Ali was a great fighter, but compared to other weights' great fighters, his record is very weak and overrated.
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Ali is beloved today more for nostagia among the aging baby-boomers, his wit, his beauty, his uplifting a downtrodden people at the same time that Malcolm was doing the same, and his stance on the Vietnam war. He is a world figure. Ali's presence is akin to the Dalai Lama's. For those of us who know better, that is curious.

As for his legacy in the ring, he faced monsters like Liston and Foreman and destroyed them both. He beat many quality fighters in the 60s including Cooper, Patterson, Folley, Chuvalo, Terrell, Williams, et al. The beauty of him in that decade was not so much his conquests as his savage grace, speed, and mobility. He was a true phenomenon in terms of natural talent/athleticism.

In the 70s, his conquests were more formidable -Quarry, Bonavena, Norton, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, etc. and it was more incredible because the first thing to go on a boxer is speed and reflexes. Ali was not the same... but even sans the demon speed, Ali's heart was exposed and it was three sizes too big.

The world watched as age sapped his youthful powers and found in his latter struggles and triumphs the stuff of inspiration. The sagging pectorals and the graying hair in their mirrors were not so lamentable because Ali showed them ....age and guile can defeat youth and speed.

Ali is a legend.

Jones, though a great fighter, is comparatively a midget.

My apologies to Jones' many fans out here. I readily acknowledge that Jones' natural abilities damn near matched Ali's. They were enough to see him overcome two (that's TWO in career that was as long as Ali's) truly formidable challenges in Hopkins and Toney -but he had neither the heart, nor the will, nor the conquests, nor the fearlessness of Ali.
That was a treat to read mate, great post.
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