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Old 12-08-2009, 07:10 PM   #1
PH|LLA
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Default I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

here are some fighters and more or less what range I would place them in...

top10 : SRR, Armstrong, SRL, Duran, Ali...

11-20 : Whitaker, Marciano, Pacquiao...

21-30 : Hagler, Arguello, Chavez, Roy Jones...

31-40 : Holyfield, Floyd...

41-50 : Ricardo Lopez, Hopkins, Lewis...

51-60 : Mosley, Barrera, Morales...

61-70 : Marquez, Oscar...

71-80 : Tito, Toney, ...

81-100 : Vitali K, Calzaghe...

Give me some fighters that i haven't mentioned and I'll try to see what range I would place them in.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PH|LLA View Post
here are some fighters and more or less what range I would place them in...

top10 : SRR, Armstrong, SRL, Duran, Ali...

11-20 : Whitaker, Marciano, Pacquiao...

21-30 : Hagler, Arguello, Chavez, Roy Jones...

31-40 : Holyfield, Floyd...

41-50 : Ricardo Lopez, Hopkins, Lewis...

51-60 : Mosley, Barrera, Morales...

61-70 : Marquez, Oscar...

71-80 : Tito, Toney, ...

81-100 : Vitali K, Calzaghe...

Give me some fighters that i haven't mentioned and I'll try to see what range I would place them in.
Lopez above Barrera?
Marquez in a top 100?
Marciano in the top 20?

Ouch.

Michael Spinks. Where would you rank him, PHILLA, and why?
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

IMO Marquez deserves a place in the top 100 and one could argue that he is just as great as MAB and Morales but just didn't get his chance to tango.

Finito Lopez one of the fighters who really got me hardcore into boxing (along with Barrera actually) I was absolutely amazed by his technical brilliance the first time i saw him fight and that was before i knew that he retired undefeated.

Marciano a pretty small heavyweight who wrecked havoc on the division against other great albeit past prime fighters. IMO gets underrated by boxing fans because of his offensive style.

Spinks i can't rate unfortunately don't know much about him.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Quote:
IMO Marquez deserves a place in the top 100 and one could argue that he is just as great as MAB and Morales but just didn't get his chance to tango.
I rate fighters not on what they could have done but what they did do, and Marquez has no case to being as high as either Barrera or Morales, two fighters who fought and better opposition in just as many weight divisions.

Quote:
Finito Lopez one of the fighters who really got me hardcore into boxing (along with Barrera actually) I was absolutely amazed by his technical brilliance the first time i saw him fight and that was before i knew that he retired undefeated.
Resume isn't a big criteria for you, then?

Quote:
Marciano a pretty small heavyweight who wrecked havoc on the division against other great albeit past prime fighters. IMO gets underrated by boxing fans because of his offensive style.
His resume isn't top 20 level, his skills aren't top 20 level, and neither was his longevity. Why is he top 20?

Quote:
Spinks i can't rate unfortunately don't know much about him.
Sorry to hear that, PHILLA.

How about Orlando Canizales?
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PH|LLA View Post
here are some fighters and more or less what range I would place them in...

top10 : SRR, Armstrong, SRL, Duran, Ali...

11-20 : Whitaker, Marciano, Pacquiao...

21-30 : Hagler, Arguello, Chavez, Roy Jones...

31-40 : Holyfield, Floyd...

41-50 : Ricardo Lopez, Hopkins, Lewis...

51-60 : Mosley, Barrera, Morales...

61-70 : Marquez, Oscar...

71-80 : Tito, Toney, ...

81-100 : Vitali K, Calzaghe...

Give me some fighters that i haven't mentioned and I'll try to see what range I would place them in.
If you got around to actually doing a top 100 you'd see guys like Vitali, Calzaghe, Marquez cant fit in, its simply too difficult with all the great fighters over the years. Mosley and Tito are pusing it imo.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

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If you got around to actually doing a top 100 you'd see guys like Vitali, Calzaghe, Marquez cant fit in, its simply too difficult with all the great fighters over the years. Mosley and Tito are pusing it imo.
The only people who are qualified to make a credible top 100 list of fighters are those that have at least seen Michael Spinks. PHILLA hasn't. That isn't get on him, I'm not qualified either because I'm only getting my Vincente Saldivar education right now.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addie View Post
I rate fighters not on what they could have done but what they did do, and Marquez has no case to being as high as either Barrera or Morales, two fighters who fought and better opposition in just as many weight divisions.

Resume isn't a big criteria for you, then?

His resume isn't top 20 level, his skills aren't top 20 level, and neither was his longevity. Why is he top 20?

Sorry to hear that, PHILLA.

How about Orlando Canizales?
I rate them on what they did do also. Basically I rate them on what I see. Apart from SRR, who i put up on top based on consensus. All the other fighters is from footage that I've seen with my own eyes.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

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Originally Posted by es***boy View Post
If you got around to actually doing a top 100 you'd see guys like Vitali, Calzaghe, Marquez cant fit in, its simply too difficult with all the great fighters over the years. Mosley and Tito are pusing it imo.
I can see what you're getting at with the quantity of great fighters there are but though this list would surely stretch out, the order would remain pretty much the same.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

How about Orlando Canizales. PHILLA?

A fighter who was every bit as dominant at Bantamweight as Lopez was at Minimumweight, but who had better fighters to contend with? Skillwise, Orlando has a strong case, I feel, for being rated on the same level if not higher than the great Finito Lopez?
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Addie is right...you have to be careful how much stock you put into how good a fighter look in your opinion.

It certainly counts but you have to really look at who they beat. So often fighters look the shit against a certain level of opponant then fall apart when they step up.
Lopez was never really challenged because there was no one there to challenge him.

Though not his fault he did miss out on fighting two of the best light flys of that era...which would have went a long way to justifying him over Barrera.

Greb, Langford and Charles should make your top 10 for a start, then after that go for your life but dont forget Fitzsimmons who many people overlook. Possible top 10 but I reckon solid top 25 at the very least.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

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Though not his fault he did miss out on fighting two of the best light flys of that era...which would have went a long way to justifying him over Barrera.
Had he faced and defeated Gonzalez and Carbajal, there would be no questions over his resume, and he'd be rated higher than Marco with absolutely no complaints from me. Whether or not he was capable doesn't matter, he just didn't do it.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PH|LLA View Post
here are some fighters and more or less what range I would place them in...

top10 : SRR, Armstrong, SRL, Duran, Ali...

11-20 : Whitaker, Marciano, Pacquiao...

21-30 : Hagler, Arguello, Chavez, Roy Jones...

31-40 : Holyfield, Floyd...

41-50 : Ricardo Lopez, Hopkins, Lewis...

51-60 : Mosley, Barrera, Morales...

61-70 : Marquez, Oscar...

71-80 : Tito, Toney, ...

81-100 : Vitali K, Calzaghe...

Give me some fighters that i haven't mentioned and I'll try to see what range I would place them in.
Were do Sam Langford, Orginal Walcott, George Dixon, Micky Walker, Marcel Cerdan, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarin, Dick Tiger, Joe Gans, Gene Tunney, Thomas Hearns, Salvador Sanchez, rank in the list?
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Pretty absurd listings there.
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PH|LLA View Post
here are some fighters and more or less what range I would place them in...

top10 : SRR, Armstrong, SRL, Duran, Ali...

11-20 : Whitaker, Marciano, Pacquiao...

21-30 : Hagler, Arguello, Chavez, Roy Jones...

.
and then ... i stop to read
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: I've never made a top 100 p4p list but...

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and then ... i stop to read
I watched Chavez vs LaPorte last night. He was brilliant. So calm, so relaxed, and he delivered punches beautifully to head and body.
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