Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?" - Page 2

JohnThomas1 · 12-10-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

Nor with a prime Hearns or Duran.

At what stage of Leonard's 135 pound career do you think he should have fought "prime" Duran at?

rekcutnevets · 12-10-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Posted by Silver
and allegedly against duran, srl rushed for a rematch inorder for duran to lose a bunch of wieght to get back down to welterweight which would affect any fighter, having to so much wieght ina short time span.

The rematch took place 5 months later. Duran had no problems with his weight June 20, but Leonard just knows he will on November 25 of the same year. That's what you believe? That less time between fights would make Duran fatter than a longer span would have been what Ray Leonard was predicting.

MrMarvel · 12-10-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Butcher

Leonard by TKO in 5

Moving to Milan, Italy was a smart move for Marvin, no need to lose worse this time around than he did the 1st time, he only side stepped what Lalonde ended up taking

Arminius · 12-10-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

At what stage of Leonard's 135 pound career do you think he should have fought "prime" Duran at?

I think 1978 but Leonard would be a little green. By 1980 after 12 years of fighting Duran was fading. He could always come up with a masterful performance when he wanted to. But he could never sustain those performances after 1980.

JohnThomas1 · 12-11-2009, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

I think 1978 but Leonard would be a little green. By 1980 after 12 years of fighting Duran was fading. He could always come up with a masterful performance when he wanted to. But he could never sustain those performances after 1980.

Well Leonard hardly "avoided" fighting peak Duran.

Sardu · 12-11-2009, 03:39 AM

Hagler did not seem as crisp after the epic Hearns alltime great superbrawl. I think the combination of how emotionally draining as well as physically taxing that fight really was took a little bit away from Hagler. He was still great but at his best between 80' to 85' he was arguably the finest MW ever - an absolute machine. Leonard was a very calculating and smart guy and I believe he researched everything and put the demands on his own terms. If it had been the Hagler of 84' then I feel like Hagler would have won. Leonard at his best was one of the top three welterweights ever but post Hagler he had to rely more on his indomitable will and tremendous heart and courage to pull out victories.

Arminius · 12-11-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

Well Leonard hardly "avoided" fighting peak Duran.

You are correct. I should have said he avoided prime Hearns and Duran at his various peaks.

JohnThomas1 · 12-11-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

You are correct. I should have said he avoided prime Hearns and Duran at his various peaks.

Avoided Duran at his various peaks? Sorry to be a pain, but i still don't follow. Duran never would have overly troubled Leonard post fight II.

Arminius · 12-11-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

Avoided Duran at his various peaks? Sorry to be a pain, but i still don't follow. Duran never would have overly troubled Leonard post fight II.

I do not think he would want Duran at Jr Middle or Middle right after Davey Moore or even at any weight under Super Middle after Barkley.

JohnThomas1 · 12-11-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

I do not think he would want Duran at Jr Middle or Middle right after Davey Moore or even at any weight under Super Middle after Barkley.

Leonard was in the middle of a 5 year retirement (basically) when Duran beat Moore. He actually said if Duran beat Hagler he'd fight him, but deep down he knew he wouldn't.

Duran held no fears whatsoever for Leonard anytime after the rematch. He had far too much speed for him at these weights. The Duran who beat Moore would have been soundly decisioned by Leonard.

Funny you should mention Leonard avoiding fighting Duran below 168, because they had a private agreement on weight and BOTH came in under the middleweight limit. So much for that one.

Ezzard · 12-11-2009, 09:14 AM

All Duran's successes after the win over Leonard came against guys who were aggressive and looking to fight. He could no longer catch up with, and hunt down, the movers.

After the first fight Leonard would always be cautious against Duran and would always walk away with the decision.

Duran's wins post Leonard I were big news becasue he was old, past it and too far north of his best fighting weight.

Dave's Top Ten · 12-11-2009, 03:31 PM

Getting back to the thread topic, I don't think either of them wanted a rematch that badly. If they did, it would have happened.

Hagler was pretty much done with the fight game after Mugabi and had to be coaxed into fighting Leonard. I also think Hagler may have been concerned that he would be even older and slower in a rematch.

On the other hand I think Leonard would have been very wary of granting a rematch to a fired up Hagler, which is what he certainly wasn't in the first match. There were plenty of other places he could make his millions.

Both of them to this day, claim the other didn't want it, but in reality, I don 't think either of them did.

JohnThomas1 · 12-11-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezzard

All Duran's successes after the win over Leonard came against guys who were aggressive and looking to fight. He could no longer catch up with, and hunt down, the movers.

After the first fight Leonard would always be cautious against Duran and would always walk away with the decision.

Duran's wins post Leonard I were big news becasue he was old, past it and too far north of his best fighting weight.

This is exactly right.

Silver · 12-11-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

The rematch took place 5 months later. Duran had no problems with his weight June 20, but Leonard just knows he will on November 25 of the same year. That's what you believe? That less time between fights would make Duran fatter than a longer span would have been what Ray Leonard was predicting.

didnt you see the part that said alleged or did you read past that. is been widely speculated that Leonard rushed for a rematch because of he supposedly was aware of duran's weight gain. and duran had done this during his career. you cant prove that is true or not so it can only be said that it was alleged.

Silver · 12-11-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave's Top Ten

Getting back to the thread topic, I don't think either of them wanted a rematch that badly. If they did, it would have happened.

Hagler was pretty much done with the fight game after Mugabi and had to be coaxed into fighting Leonard. I also think Hagler may have been concerned that he would be even older and slower in a rematch.

On the other hand I think Leonard would have been very wary of granting a rematch to a fired up Hagler, which is what he certainly wasn't in the first match. There were plenty of other places he could make his millions.

Both of them to this day, claim the other didn't want it, but in reality, I don 't think either of them did.

seems pretty logical, as to what you're saying. neither may have wanted to risk losing a rematch.

12-11-2009, 03:39 AM	#21
Sardu RIP Mr. Bun: 2007-2012 ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,007 vCash: 1000	Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?" Hagler did not seem as crisp after the epic Hearns alltime great superbrawl. I think the combination of how emotionally draining as well as physically taxing that fight really was took a little bit away from Hagler. He was still great but at his best between 80' to 85' he was arguably the finest MW ever - an absolute machine. Leonard was a very calculating and smart guy and I believe he researched everything and put the demands on his own terms. If it had been the Hagler of 84' then I feel like Hagler would have won. Leonard at his best was one of the top three welterweights ever but post Hagler he had to rely more on his indomitable will and tremendous heart and courage to pull out victories.
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12-11-2009, 09:14 AM	#26
Ezzard Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,037 vCash: 1000	Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?" All Duran's successes after the win over Leonard came against guys who were aggressive and looking to fight. He could no longer catch up with, and hunt down, the movers. After the first fight Leonard would always be cautious against Duran and would always walk away with the decision. Duran's wins post Leonard I were big news becasue he was old, past it and too far north of his best fighting weight.
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12-11-2009, 03:31 PM	#27
Dave's Top Ten Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 580 vCash: 1000	Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?" Getting back to the thread topic, I don't think either of them wanted a rematch that badly. If they did, it would have happened. Hagler was pretty much done with the fight game after Mugabi and had to be coaxed into fighting Leonard. I also think Hagler may have been concerned that he would be even older and slower in a rematch. On the other hand I think Leonard would have been very wary of granting a rematch to a fired up Hagler, which is what he certainly wasn't in the first match. There were plenty of other places he could make his millions. Both of them to this day, claim the other didn't want it, but in reality, I don 't think either of them did.
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