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Old 12-11-2009, 07:52 PM   #31
Longhhorn71
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
why couldnt he give Hagler a rematch? For the same reason he couldnt defend his title against a worthy contender (Nunn)

he knew he'd lose
Norris gave Leonard his dues for jacking Hearns & Hagler around.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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This is exactly right.

I can't argue when I think about it. If they are both in their primes at light or welter I think it would look similar to Duran's fight with Lou Bizzaro. Incidentally Bizzaro was a very good boxer.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:03 AM   #33
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

Leonard was a overrated fight that was given attention from fans over wins that were loses. He lost to Hagler and he lost to Hearns the second time around and to be honest I dont have him ranked that high all-time with the **** he pulled.

5 Division champ thing was ****ing bull**** also, cause while he did get lucky to win against Hearns in the first fight and become the true 147 lb champ, everything after that was horse ****! He won the 154 lb belt against a no name build up record bum and only fought their for one fight. He clearly lost to Hagler and I had that scored 117-111 so he did not really win the 160lb belt. The 168 belt was a joke cause he fought for both the 168 and 175 title belts against another bum. Then got a draw in a second fight with Hearn that he was owned in. And he final win came against a 39yo shot Duran. He was made a fool of in his final 2 fights at age 34 and 40 by **** fighters that were lucky to ever have won a belt.

Sugar Ray Leonard is a liar and in my opinion not even a all-time great fighter. Hall of Fame does not always mean great, and he was more like De La Hoya in terms of a fighting and should be remembered the same way that Oscar will be.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by Longhhorn71 View Post
Norris gave Leonard his dues for jacking Hearns & Hagler around.
another reason Leonard gets low marks from me. People ask me why I discriminate against him. that's why.

Then when time comes for him to put up against a younger faster man, let's face it Leonard can't do ****. I agree he's way overrated
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:15 AM   #35
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by Dr. Iron Fist View Post
Leonard was a overrated fight that was given attention from fans over wins that were loses. He lost to Hagler and he lost to Hearns the second time around and to be honest I dont have him ranked that high all-time with the **** he pulled.

5 Division champ thing was ****ing bull**** also, cause while he did get lucky to win against Hearns in the first fight and become the true 147 lb champ, everything after that was horse ****! He won the 154 lb belt against a no name build up record bum and only fought their for one fight. He clearly lost to Hagler and I had that scored 117-111 so he did not really win the 160lb belt. The 168 belt was a joke cause he fought for both the 168 and 175 title belts against another bum. Then got a draw in a second fight with Hearn that he was owned in. And he final win came against a 39yo shot Duran. He was made a fool of in his final 2 fights at age 34 and 40 by **** fighters that were lucky to ever have won a belt.

Sugar Ray Leonard is a liar and in my opinion not even a all-time great fighter. Hall of Fame does not always mean great, and he was more like De La Hoya in terms of a fighting and should be remembered the same way that Oscar will be.

This is easily among the worst posts I have ever read during my time on ESB.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:51 AM   #36
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by Dr. Iron Fist View Post
Leonard was a overrated fight that was given attention from fans over wins that were loses. He lost to Hagler and he lost to Hearns the second time around and to be honest I dont have him ranked that high all-time with the **** he pulled.

5 Division champ thing was ****ing bull**** also, cause while he did get lucky to win against Hearns in the first fight and become the true 147 lb champ, everything after that was horse ****! He won the 154 lb belt against a no name build up record bum and only fought their for one fight. He clearly lost to Hagler and I had that scored 117-111 so he did not really win the 160lb belt. The 168 belt was a joke cause he fought for both the 168 and 175 title belts against another bum. Then got a draw in a second fight with Hearn that he was owned in. And he final win came against a 39yo shot Duran. He was made a fool of in his final 2 fights at age 34 and 40 by **** fighters that were lucky to ever have won a belt.

Sugar Ray Leonard is a liar and in my opinion not even a all-time great fighter. Hall of Fame does not always mean great, and he was more like De La Hoya in terms of a fighting and should be remembered the same way that Oscar will be.
Good to see that it just ai'nt me that can see through the brown fog of SRL bull****, the media darling who was allowed to hi-jack boxing & thanks to that **** yer've now got all this catchweight *******s, this **** made weight rigging an art form when that fat **** jose (WBC el presidente for life) Sulliman sanctioned that shocker with LaLonde to satisfy Leonards ego so that he could be 1st to win 5 titles instead of Hearns, thank **** tommy beat him 2 it.

Leonard/Hearns 2 was a contracted weight, Leonard/Duran 3 was another contracted weight shocker at 163 & nobody told Duran who was absolutly paranoid about the fines that would be imposed weighed in starved at 158.5 & Leonard at 160 so in affect Leonards WBC Super/middle title was not on the line & seeing Leonard weighed in right on 160 that meant Duran was stripped of his WBC Middleweight crown after losing to Leonard, but they were not fighting for Duran's title??? it was meant to be for Leonards WBC S/Middle belt, now go work that ****er out
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:01 AM   #37
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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didnt you see the part that said alleged or did you read past that. is been widely speculated that Leonard rushed for a rematch because of he supposedly was aware of duran's weight gain. and duran had done this during his career. you cant prove that is true or not so it can only be said that it was alleged.
No.

It can also be said that it's unsubstantieted bull****.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:34 AM   #38
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
No.

It can also be said that it's unsubstantieted bull****.
No it ai'nt anybody & everybody with an ounce of boxing knowledge Knows that this was the case, Janks Morton told King it's November or we go for Cuavas, so King said we'll take the $9 million & also there's the minor fact that i've actually met SRL & you have'nt

Leonards quite open about the fact that they new Duran was a party animal & they'd make the Duran camp an offer they can't refuse, there problem not mine he said, they took the $9 million paid in advance into a panama bank & to be realeased the moment duran gets into the ring + duran had absolutly no say in whether the fight went on in Nov or Jan the next year which arcell wanted, $$$$$ talk & Carlos Eleta met with KIng & they took the $9 million.

Ray's never denied the fact that it was all about getting duran at short notice to pile the pressure on him to make weight hence the MEGA OFFER, as Leonards always said, you got to steal any advantage you can in this sport, simple as
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:50 AM   #39
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by Arminius View Post
I can't argue when I think about it. If they are both in their primes at light or welter I think it would look similar to Duran's fight with Lou Bizzaro. Incidentally Bizzaro was a very good boxer.
Leonard would go much much better than Bizzaro because he is light years ahead as a fighter. Little doubt tho Duran is a nightmare for most anyone ever in a born at the same weight scenario.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:25 AM   #40
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
another reason Leonard gets low marks from me. People ask me why I discriminate against him. that's why.

Then when time comes for him to put up against a younger faster man, let's face it Leonard can't do ****. I agree he's way overrated
Dr. Iron Fist is a really cool nickname rooster. My congratulations on coming up with that one.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:34 AM   #41
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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No it ai'nt anybody & everybody with an ounce of boxing knowledge Knows that this was the case, Janks Morton told King it's November or we go for Cuavas, so King said we'll take the $9 million & also there's the minor fact that i've actually met SRL & you have'nt

Leonards quite open about the fact that they new Duran was a party animal & they'd make the Duran camp an offer they can't refuse, there problem not mine he said, they took the $9 million paid in advance into a panama bank & to be realeased the moment duran gets into the ring + duran had absolutly no say in whether the fight went on in Nov or Jan the next year which arcell wanted, $$$$$ talk & Carlos Eleta met with KIng & they took the $9 million.

Ray's never denied the fact that it was all about getting duran at short notice to pile the pressure on him to make weight hence the MEGA OFFER, as Leonards always said, you got to steal any advantage you can in this sport, simple as
Yeah, these ramblings all of a sudden made it very substantiated.

Now let me give you a lesson in what counts as substantiating and an actual source: Arcel (Duran's own trainer) saying he was in good shape for the fight.

Your boy made a bigger **** of himself than any other champion has ever done in a ring. That's the bottom line. Accept that and get on with it.

Duran wasn't tired, he wasn't beaten up or injured. He was just frustrated and couldn't take it any more. It had nothing to do with shape and all to do with a flawed mentality. He was "man" enough to insult Leonard's wife, but not man enough to conduct himself as a champion in a losing battle. And then the excuses from him and his fanboys. Pathetic.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:40 AM   #42
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
Yeah, these ramblings all of a sudden made it very substantiated.

Now let me give you a lesson in what counts as substantiating and an actual source: Arcel (Duran's own trainer) saying he was in good shape for the fight.

Your boy made a bigger **** of himself than any other champion has ever done in a ring. That's the bottom line. Accept that and get on with it.

Duran wasn't tired, he wasn't beaten up or injured. He was just frustrated and couldn't take it any more. It had nothing to do with shape and all to do with a flawed mentality. He was "man" enough to insult Leonard's wife, but not man enough to conduct himself as a champion in a losing battle. And then the excuses from him and his fanboys. Pathetic.
Who the **** are you!!!! the likes of you & your ilk do not give out lessons, you get given-em so don't you go getting above your station little man & go puffing yerself up here trying to pass yerself off as some impartial fistic doyen as with your track record in SRL sperm swallowing nothing you ever say on this subject will ever be taken with anything of any note.

Yes we all know duran made a **** of himself, so ****in what!!! yeh!! He was "Man" enough to insult leonards wife, so ****in what!!! He proberbly told her he was going to **** her senseless after he'd given her husband a proper beating, whats wrong with that & a beating he dished out indeed DID'NT HE

In Montreal your sweetheart had his **** handed to him by the better man who was by the way the underdog + smaller/older man & we don't want to here anymore of your **** excuses for SRL fighting the wrong fight & being green ect. Leonard was beaten & outboxed by the better man ****in period & SRL had & always has used any underhand ploy to gain an advantage all through his career.

You're no real fan of boxing, you're just the usual bandwagan celeb lover like the majority of Leonard fans. I recall back then when at least 75% of the press castigated Leonard for his lack of intestinal fortitude in that New Orleans fight, he never conducted himself as a champion, he fought scared!!!

Ray Arcel ai'nt exactly going to tell the truth is he that Eleta & King overruled him, so stop clinging onto any of that old ****, what else??? eh yeh, **** OFF
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:31 AM   #43
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Who the **** are you!!!! the likes of you & your ilk do not give out lessons, you get given-em so don't you go getting above your station little man & go puffing yerself up here trying to pass yerself off as some impartial fistic doyen as with your track record in SRL sperm swallowing nothing you ever say on this subject will ever be taken with anything of any note.

Yes we all know duran made a **** of himself, so ****in what!!! yeh!! He was "Man" enough to insult leonards wife, so ****in what!!! He proberbly told her he was going to **** her senseless after he'd given her husband a proper beating, whats wrong with that & a beating he dished out indeed DID'NT HE

In Montreal your sweetheart had his **** handed to him by the better man who was by the way the underdog + smaller/older man & we don't want to here anymore of your **** excuses for SRL fighting the wrong fight & being green ect. Leonard was beaten & outboxed by the better man ****in period & SRL had & always has used any underhand ploy to gain an advantage all through his career.

You're no real fan of boxing, you're just the usual bandwagan celeb lover like the majority of Leonard fans. I recall back then when at least 75% of the press castigated Leonard for his lack of intestinal fortitude in that New Orleans fight, he never conducted himself as a champion, he fought scared!!!

Ray Arcel ai'nt exactly going to tell the truth is he that Eleta & King overruled him, so stop clinging onto any of that old ****, what else??? eh yeh, **** OFF
You Duran-boys crack me up. You're a special kind of messed up, that's for damn sure.

And I love how you can't keep objective respect for a fighter's achievements apart from being a fan. You have to accept everyone is not like you.

For me, it's no different with Leonard than if people tried to **** all over Robinson's achievements just because they're big fans of Gavilan, LaMotta, Basilio etc - or if they did so with Whitaker's just because they're big fans of Chavez or DHL. I know this is an alien concept for you, but just feel it out for a while, why don't you.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

Leonard was on the decline, and was unlikely to capture lightning in a bottle again by repeating his"""win""" over Hagler. He also had too much to lose and probably had the sense to realize he would be fighting a VERY psyched up, motivated-by-hate, revenge minded Hagler, who in my opinion, would have regained his title by a knockout...perhaps fighting the equivalent in sheer will and ferocity, of his epic bout with Hearns..
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:42 PM   #45
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard: "Why wouldn't I have given Hagler a rematch?"

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Leonard was on the decline, and was unlikely to capture lightning in a bottle again by repeating his"""win""" over Hagler. He also had too much to lose and probably had the sense to realize he would be fighting a VERY psyched up, motivated-by-hate, revenge minded Hagler, who in my opinion, would have regained his title by a knockout...perhaps fighting the equivalent in sheer will and ferocity, of his epic bout with Hearns..
I don't have a problem with this assessment. No need for the triple quotes though.
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