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Old 12-09-2009, 11:46 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

I agree with you Russell. Fullmer's chin is not in the category of LaMotta, Chuvalo, Joe Grim, Greb. But probably just a shade below those guys. It was granite but not quite the granite that those aforementioned guys possessed IMO.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

Lamotta is the benchmark no doubt about that...I wouldnt say in general people say Fullmer's is on the same level anyway. I think it gets rated appropriately, one of the most proven of alltime at the weight whilst at the the same time there are a handful of fighters who have better whiskers.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

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Originally Posted by Sardu View Post
I agree with you Russell. Fullmer's chin is not in the category of LaMotta, Chuvalo, Joe Grim, Greb. But probably just a shade below those guys. It was granite but not quite the granite that those aforementioned guys possessed IMO.
Thanks, I was a little worried there'd be a backlash.

I don't what the **** to make of Grim's chin. From reports of his fights he must have been down literally hundreds of times over the course of his career, sometimes over a dozen in a single fight.

But keeping him down was just about impossible. So what does that make him?
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

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Thanks, I was a little worried there'd be a backlash.

I don't what the **** to make of Grim's chin. From reports of his fights he must have been down literally hundreds of times over the course of his career, sometimes over a dozen in a single fight.

But keeping him down was just about impossible. So what does that make him?

Yeah, I should not have included Grim and Chuvalo with elite HOF fighters like Fullmer, LaMotta, Greb. In terms of chins there was also a guy called "the sailor" who weighed about 190lbs. and fought Larry Holmes in 1977. I think his name was Ibar Arrington. THey say he used to love getting hit and would never go down.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

If the Chuvalos and LaMottas are As, it's not okay to make Fullmer a B. If the Chuvalos and Lamottas are 100s, it's fair to make Fullmer a 90 or so. That maybe didn't make any sense but I'm really tired.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?
And you even said A-. I said I was sleepy.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

I have to agree with it not being on the level of the likes of Lamotta, and Hagler. Probaly just a good level below, but a damn right solid set of whiskers.......
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?
I think Gene`s chin gets rated accordingly, it wasn`t cast iron solid but it was definately one of the better ones the middleweight division has seen imo notwithstanding the one punch stoppage loss to Robinson which was basically a real one in a million shot if there ever was one.

Against Boyd Gene was slightly off balance as he came lunging in and Boyd landed a grazing left hook to the top of his head sending him down for a no count, Fullmer wasn`t hurt at all from the kd itself. And I have to disagree with you on your opinion of Gil Turners punching power, Turner could punch pretty damn hard imo and he must have caught Gene with a punch he didn`t see coming to drop him the way he did.

And Lausse caught Gene on the way in with a perfectly placed left hook on the jaw as he took a quick step back on the on-rushing Fullmer, that punch would have done a lot more damage on a fighter less durable than Gene but Gene not only took the punch relatively well imo but he got back up mighty quickly from that punch too, impressive to say the least considering that he got nailed flush on the way in by one of the hardest hitting middleweights ever.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?
I'd say you have him about right ,very good chin ,but not concrete ,maybe just a step below Maxim's.
Lausse was a terrific hitter ,short and heavily muscled ,huge shoulders , he winged them from the roof tops.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:37 PM   #11
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

Hmm...

Didn't Florentino Fernandez rock Fullmer pretty badly? I know he Fullmer's arm was fractured in that fight as well.

Fernandez was only a year and a half removed from fighting at welter, regardless of the massive hitter that he was.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

I take Gene at his word that he was never even knocked dizzy until Robby flattened him, even though he'd been dropped. There are some accounts of LaMotta being shaken and staggered during the 1940s, and Jake, like Chuvalo, has always protested that his defensive movements were underrated.

My own suspicion has always been that Gene's chin is underrated, based on the widespread viewing Robby's knockout of him has received. Overlooked in that episode though is the fact that Fullmer was trying to get up, and recovered fairly quickly from the blow. This wasn't Ingo losing the title back to Patterson, Liston out cold at the hands of Martin, or Louis flat on his face after the count against Schmeling. If the bell had saved Gene, he might have been ready to answer the bell for round six.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

Fernandez was a legit middleweight puncher at that stage regardless Russ...one of the hardest from that era.

Actually probably more of a testement to Gene's chin that despite carrying an injury and clearly getting towards the end of his career he managed to grind out a win.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

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Originally Posted by WhataRock View Post
Fernandez was a legit middleweight puncher at that stage regardless Russ...one of the hardest from that era.

Actually probably more of a testement to Gene's chin that despite carrying an injury and clearly getting towards the end of his career he managed to grind out a win.
Agreed.

Fullmer had a definite ATG chin. You could say his chin wasn't quite on the level of LaMotta or Chuvalo - but those guys are arguably the #1 and 2 toughest chinned fighters in history.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

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Agreed.

Fullmer had a definite ATG chin. You could say his chin wasn't quite on the level of LaMotta or Chuvalo - but those guys are arguably the #1 and 2 toughest chinned fighters in history.
His chin also wasnt on the level of Hagler, Ali or De La Hoya.
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