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Old 12-11-2009, 12:35 AM   #1
Addie
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Default Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Myung Woo-Yuh
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-lznbLglgM[/ame]


Jung-Koo Chang
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESB4Pms8uBk[/ame]


Sung-Kil Moon
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxlcBtlGakA[/ame]


Hilario Zapata
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPkh4t1XU30[/ame]


Gilberto Roman
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRYzTOptayw[/ame]


Michael Carbajal
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOp5ttxStrQ[/ame]

Humberto Gonzalez
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvtXzdrK4EI[/ame]


Ricardo Lopez
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQfc58XeQXQ[/ame]

Yoko Gushiken
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81GE6DGISaw[/ame]

Last edited by Addie; 12-11-2009 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Just recently started to get into all these fighters apart from Gilberto Roman (I'll have to look him up). I havn't see enough of all of them to make a final judgement but I think at this stage I would take Chang over all of them. I'm waiting to watch Chang v Zapata 1 in which case my opinion may change slightly.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Jung-Koo Chang

Sung-Kil Moon, Hilario Zapata, Gilberto Roman, Ricardo Lopez(these four in no particular order)

Yoko Gushiken

Myung Woo-Yuh, Humberto Gonzalez(no particular order)

Michael Carbajal

I find myself incapable of doing straight numbered lists, so i came up with a tiered structure instead.


Chang at the top, because i think he has the best mix of ability, dominance and opposition fought, coupled with a long number of title defences (even though he was a Benitez'esque undedicated phenom that burned out before he should have).The most accomplished fighter at or below Flyweight of the eighties imo, which was a strong generation and the last decade of a 30 year golden period for the lighterweights.

The next tier, other than Lopez, had excellent ability, a good amount of dominance and fought other very highly rated fighters in prime for prime bouts, added in with each displaying a shortcoming or two that was apparent because of the level of opp taken on in those fights.Lopez isn't as proven and falls behind on the defining fight stakes, but i thought his ability, consistent dominance and longevity was strong enough to warrant a place on this tier.

Gushiken just below, even though head to head i feel he belongs in that tier.He fought better comp than Lopez, but i thought the way his career finished with losses to a mediocrity and his decision to retire rather than move up(he cited weight making and disinterest as the main reasons for losing and retiring)hurts him.Also didn't really h have enough big prime for prime fights, the closest he came being against a past prime Alfonso Lopez and Martin Vargas.

Yuh often struggling with the better fighters he fought and imo not having as much ability as Gushiken put him a notch below for me.I wouldn't argue much if anyone wanted to put him higher however.He at least retired as champion and avenged his past prime loss.

Gonzalez on the same level, as he had similar ability imo and a few real upset losses gainst guys he really should have beaten hurt him.Dodgy chin.

Carbajal at the bottom, though i wouldn't argue against anyone putting him slightly higher.The least formidable head to head to me.

Gushiken, YUh, Carbajal and Gonzalez could have made up a second no particular order tier, but i feel more confident on how matches between them would go than i do with the higher tier.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolb View Post
Just recently started to get into all these fighters apart from Gilberto Roman (I'll have to look him up). I havn't see enough of all of them to make a final judgement but I think at this stage I would take Chang over all of them. I'm waiting to watch Chang v Zapata 1 in which case my opinion may change slightly.
Yep. You'll be even more certain that Chang is no.1, I'll lend it ya
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Well i see that most of you still underrate Lopez. Addie I think you have him on the opposite side of the ratings,Lopez is the only one in my opinion that clearly seperates himself from the rest
Ok as for the rest wow,these guys are pretty much on par with eachother. i have Chang 2nd put only a hair above the rest I think everyone else is pretty much on par with eachother but here i go
1. Lopez


2. Chang
3.Chiquita-Carbajal
5.Yuh
6.Roman- Moon
8. Zapata
9.Gushiken
Ok this is probably the tightest list ive made in a while although Moon stopped Roman. Roman was at the end. I guess between 5 and 9 I wouldnt argue no matter what order you put this.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Yep. You'll be even more certain that Chang is no.1, I'll lend it ya

Yeah sound, I'll have a look at those Yuh fights as well mate.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantequilla View Post
Jung-Koo Chang

Sung-Kil Moon, Hilario Zapata, Gilberto Roman, Ricardo Lopez(these four in no particular order)

Yoko Gushiken

Myung Woo-Yuh, Humberto Gonzalez(no particular order)

Michael Carbajal

I find myself incapable of doing straight numbered lists, so i came up with a tiered structure instead.


Chang at the top, because i think he has the best mix of ability, dominance and opposition fought, coupled with a long number of title defences (even though he was a Benitez'esque undedicated phenom that burned out before he should have).The most accomplished fighter at or below Flyweight of the eighties imo, which was a strong generation and the last decade of a 30 year golden period for the lighterweights.

The next tier, other than Lopez, had excellent ability, a good amount of dominance and fought other very highly rated fighters in prime for prime bouts, added in with each displaying a shortcoming or two that was apparent because of the level of opp taken on in those fights.Lopez isn't as proven and falls behind on the defining fight stakes, but i thought his ability, consistent dominance and longevity was strong enough to warrant a place on this tier.

Gushiken just below, even though head to head i feel he belongs in that tier.He fought better comp than Lopez, but i thought the way his career finished with losses to a mediocrity and his decision to retire rather than move up(he cited weight making and disinterest as the main reasons for losing and retiring)hurts him.Also didn't really h have enough big prime for prime fights, the closest he came being against a past prime Alfonso Lopez and Martin Vargas.

Yuh often struggling with the better fighters he fought and imo not having as much ability as Gushiken put him a notch below for me.I wouldn't argue much if anyone wanted to put him higher however.He at least retired as champion and avenged his past prime loss.

Gonzalez on the same level, as he had similar ability imo and a few real upset losses gainst guys he really should have beaten hurt him.Dodgy chin.

Carbajal at the bottom, though i wouldn't argue against anyone putting him slightly higher.The least formidable head to head to me.

Gushiken, YUh, Carbajal and Gonzalez could have made up a second no particular order tier, but i feel more confident on how matches between them would go than i do with the higher tier.
Brilliant post

So Gilberto Roman did beat good fighters in their prime? He's currently the fighter I'm interested in, but there's only one of his prime performances on youtube at the minute. He seemed to have wonderful jab, and his movement must have been a nightmare to deal with. Can you tell me a little more about how his career?
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anarci View Post
Well i see that most of you still underrate Lopez. Addie I think you have him on the opposite side of the ratings,Lopez is the only one in my opinion that clearly seperates himself from the rest
Ok as for the rest wow,these guys are pretty much on par with eachother. i have Chang 2nd put only a hair above the rest I think everyone else is pretty much on par with eachother but here i go
1. Lopez


2. Chang
3.Chiquita-Carbajal
5.Yuh
6.Roman- Moon
8. Zapata
9.Gushiken
Ok this is probably the tightest list ive made in a while although Moon stopped Roman. Roman was at the end. I guess between 5 and 9 I wouldnt argue no matter what order you put this.
I rank fighters on resume first, ability second and that's why Lopez will never be held in as regard as you. Not to say I don't appreciate his skills, he was wonderful. I like seeing your posts because you do have a unique opinion, and it's always interesting. I've got a lot of Gonzalez, Myung-Yuh, and some Moon on the way. I can hardly wait to get my hands on it so I can answer my own thread question.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addie View Post
Myung Woo-Yuh
Jung-Koo Chang
Sung-Kil Moon
Hilario Zapata
Gilberto Roman
Michael Carbajal
Humberto Gonzalez
Ricardo Lopez
Yoko Gushiken
Sorry mate, Ive only seen enough of Lopez.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

I need to have a think.

I'm thinking Chang at one, Moon at two but haven't thought about the rest yet. How I rank-

who did they beat, when did they beat them, how did they beat them.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:42 AM   #11
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
I need to have a think.

I'm thinking Chang at one, Moon at two but haven't thought about the rest yet. How I rank-

who did they beat, when did they beat them, how did they beat them.
You don't take dominance and ability into consideration, Fleaman?
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Im no expert on the little guys but ive recently been watching some Gushiken fights and boy could this guy fight,i specially liked his combinations and his poise under fire.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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Im no expert on the little guys but ive recently been watching some Gushiken fights and boy could this guy fight,i specially liked his combinations and his poise under fire.
Link me mate.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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Link me mate.
Check PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Well, if my subject is a 'dominant' and 'consistent' fighter I assume he will have several opponents that meet this bill. That's how I seperate the good, talent-proving, top 150-odd fighters away from the Sven Ottkes in my 'best fighters' discussions. You wouldn't take a fight against a no-hoper as a plus on a fighters resume, 'how did they do it' well that's just an example of how how I take 'dominanting performances' into account. This doesn't mean just 118-110 it means good wins in close fights against other good fighters in or around their primes, I mean we all know how to dissect a fight **** knows why I'm waffling on about the mechanics of our debate

I'm surprised my comment elicted a response to be honest
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