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Old 12-11-2009, 02:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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Well, if my subject is a 'dominant' and 'consistent' fighter
I think Myung-Yuh was dominant and consistent, and although he beat several world champions, he didn't beat "great" fighters.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

Sorry it wasn't consistency but 'ability'

'how did they do it?' again, showcasing their abilities is right in this, regardless of the fighter or the manner of the contest.

A fighter who executes what he attempts in impressive fashion, against an opponent that could show top levels of resistance (again in any form, again it's hard to debate a resume without knowledge of the opponents on it) is showing his 'ability', be it to take shots from an iron-chinned puncher before eventually sparking him or outboxing the tough champion, different wins score different types of kudos with me and it's this that brings me to my conclusions of who was the 'better fighter?'

EDIT!!!! I coulda saved all the Kerouac-inspired stream of consciousness bullshit above by saying simply: 'Put it this way, in my current P4P list I have Darchinyan above Donaire without Donaire appearing in the top ten'

and one other thing you say on another thread you say Marquez never had a 'defining wi. Can't remember the thread so I'll resonded here Addie, Pac@130 I scored it 115-112 Marquez and he showed hoe good he was in that fight. No one has been as competitive since.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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I think Myung-Yuh was dominant and consistent, and although he beat several world champions, he didn't beat "great" fighters.
No doubt and that's why I consider him a very good fighter, my admiration for Yuh has been expressed many times.

But ahead of someone like Moon or Chang, no way. He has the talent, just like they do, but lacks the resume. A good consistent resume yes, and with a lovely style, but when I'm seerating the 'best of the best' it's talent and defining wins that get a fighter into the top echelon.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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I think Myung-Yuh was dominant and consistent, and although he beat several world champions, he didn't beat "great" fighters.
But Lopez was more dominant,a little more consistant and in my opinion had greater ability, He also beat several world champions,he didnt beat great fighters.
So based on your criteria Lopez is slightly better than Yuh but yet you have him higher than Lopez.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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But Lopez was more dominant,a little more consistant and in my opinion had greater ability, He also beat several world champions,he didnt beat great fighters.
So based on your criteria Lopez is slightly better than Yuh but yet you have him higher than Lopez.
I don't have a definitive list, Anarci.

This thread was simply a list, in absolutely no order, of the little men that I've become interested in over the past month or so. I'm shying off listing them until I see more Hilario Zapata, Humberto Gonzalez, Jung Koo Chang, and Gilberto Roman. That said, I think with the soul exception of maybe Myung-Yuh, Lopez has the least impressive resume among them all, and considering none of these fighters would make a top 70 let alone a top 50, I have to wonder how you could rate Lopez so highly. I would certainly rank Lopez higher than Yuh, but that doesn't mean I think Lopez is in the same league as Barrera or Morales.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

I have Lopez above Yuh for the reason that while both were consistent and effective whilst not having many/any eye catching wins I preferred Lopez's punching form and all-round boxing approach, although Yuh was better suited to warring it up in close, which lends him props in return, as McGrain once said 'Boxings not Maths it's Music' and When it's hard to seperate two fighters you must go with 'what you like' in terms of te manner of their performances.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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and one other thing you say on another thread you say Marquez never had a 'defining wi. Can't remember the thread so I'll resonded here Addie, Pac@130 I scored it 115-112 Marquez and he showed hoe good he was in that fight. No one has been as competitive since.
That's how you scored it, but by all accounts, the fight could have gone either way and therefore I'll go by the official verdict. Marquez has been unlucky in his career, but the fact still remains, he does not have a career defining win. Look at his peers. Morales was unlucky in the second Barrera fight, but it didn't stop him going on to get signature wins. Likewise, Barrera was arguably unlucky against Jones in the rematch, and certainly in the first Morales fight, but it didn't stop him going on to get signature wins.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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I have Lopez above Yuh for the reason that while both were consistent and effective whilst not having many/any eye catching wins I preferred Lopez's punching form and all-round boxing approach, although Yuh was better suited to warring it up in close, which lends him props in return, as McGrain once said 'Boxings not Maths it's Music' and When it's hard to seperate two fighters you must go with 'what you like' in terms of te manner of their performances.
I like Myung-Yuh's punch form too though. I think he could deliver every shot with nice technique, and there was pretty much nothing he couldn't do with the left. He often tripled it up, and of course, his left to the body was subject to many knockdowns and stoppages in his dominant career at Light Flyweight. That said, I do rate Lopez higher because I think he closed the show on his opponents more consistently, and was more aesthetically pleasing on the eye.

Lopez is among this pack, and yet people still put him in the top 40-50 region of a top 100 list. It boggles the mind as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:42 PM   #24
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I don't have much time to elaborate right now, but Roman fought a lot of the top super flyweights of his era....Watanabe, Laciar 3 times, Sugar Baby Rojas, Konadu, Moon and most of his other more nondescript challengers were solid enough as far as second and third tier fighters go.He didn't fight many bums.

the first two Laciar fights and the Rojas ones are probably his main fightds with top prime opposition.Watanabe was a past prime when Roman beat him, mostly due to a late pro start and poor training habits/lack of motivation.

Roman himself was faded when Konadu and Moon defeated him.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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I don't have a definitive list, Anarci.

This thread was simply a list, in absolutely no order, of the little men that I've become interested in over the past month or so. I'm shying off listing them until I see more Hilario Zapata, Humberto Gonzalez, Jung Koo Chang, and Gilberto Roman. That said, I think with the soul exception of maybe Myung-Yuh, Lopez has the least impressive resume among them all, and considering none of these fighters would make a top 70 let alone a top 50, I have to wonder how you could rate Lopez so highly. I would certainly rank Lopez higher than Yuh, but that doesn't mean I think Lopez is in the same league as Barrera or Morales.
Actually his resume isnt close to Barrera or Morales,but I still think the amount of title defenses and undeafeated record counts for something. In a hth matchup i think he beats Barrera or Morales and all those other guys you mentioned. Yes i know you are gonna bring up how his resume is similar to Calzaghes(and if I think hes awesome too) well to before u ask me that i just think hes a better fighter than Calzaghe. Kind of plain and simple as it sounds. One other thing I think Rosendo Alvarez is was a helluva a fighter himself and he deserves mention along with many of the other little guys. I dont think he was as good as Lopez(he was like Alis Norton or Barreras Junior Jones) diffrence is he Lopez never lost,but i also believe that some of the other great little men wouldnt have gave Lopez as much trouble as Alvarez did.
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Old 12-11-2009, 02:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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Actually his resume isnt close to Barrera or Morales,but I still think the amount of title defenses and undeafeated record counts for something. In a hth matchup i think he beats Barrera or Morales and all those other guys you mentioned. Yes i know you are gonna bring up how his resume is similar to Calzaghes(and if I think hes awesome too) well to before u ask me that i just think hes a better fighter than Calzaghe. Kind of plain and simple as it sounds. One other thing I think Rosendo Alvarez is was a helluva a fighter himself and he deserves mention along with many of the other little guys. I dont think he was as good as Lopez(he was like Alis Norton or Barreras Junior Jones) diffrence is he Lopez never lost,but i also believe that some of the other great little men wouldnt have gave Lopez as much trouble as Alvarez did.
Overrated. If you rate Lopez above all the guys here...I'm sorry, it's true.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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I don't have much time to elaborate right now, but Roman fought a lot of the top super flyweights of his era....Watanabe, Laciar 3 times, Sugar Baby Rojas, Konadu, Moon and most of his other more nondescript challengers were solid enough as far as second and third tier fighters go.He didn't fight many bums.

the first two Laciar fights and the Rojas ones are probably his main fightds with top prime opposition.Watanabe was a past prime when Roman beat him, mostly due to a late pro start and poor training habits/lack of motivation.

Roman himself was faded when Konadu and Moon defeated him.
good point, roman has been forgotten here. i'm gonna watch roman-laciar, have been meaning to
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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good point, roman has been forgotten here. i'm gonna watch roman-laciar, have been meaning to
I'd honestly never ever heard of the guy until I saw the top 10 Super Flyweight list on a website. It had Roman at 3, with Galaxy at 2 and credited Johnny Tapia as being the greatest ever at that weight.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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I like Myung-Yuh's punch form too though. I think he could deliver every shot with nice technique, and there was pretty much nothing he couldn't do with the left. He often tripled it up, and of course, his left to the body was subject to many knockdowns and stoppages in his dominant career at Light Flyweight. That said, I do rate Lopez higher because I think he closed the show on his opponents more consistently, and was more aesthetically pleasing on the eye.

Lopez is among this pack, and yet people still put him in the top 40-50 region of a top 100 list. It boggles the mind as far as I'm concerned.
yeah, i like yuh's punching too, just prefer lopez's: if yuh can make lopez fight as well as box he can win a decision. a solid if unspectacular puncher, i bet money he'd have lopez at mid-range and then some, the beautiful jab not able to set up the hooks as well as usual due to yuh's good defence. i say lopez wins the first few rounds, yuh makes 5-8 really competitive by breaking up lopez's rhythm and batters him towards the end.ricardos great ring awareness and jab,plus his resilience , see him go the 12.against chang he wouldn't be as lucky.
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: Put these little guys in order of greatness.

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yeah, i like yuh's punching too, just prefer lopez's: if yuh can make lopez fight as well as box he can win a decision. a solid if unspectacular puncher, i bet money he'd have lopez at mid-range and then some, the beautiful jab not able to set up the hooks as well as usual due to yuh's good defence. i say lopez wins the first few rounds, yuh makes 5-8 really competitive by breaking up lopez's rhythm and batters him towards the end.ricardos great ring awareness and jab,plus his resilience , see him go the 12.against chang he wouldn't be as lucky.
Don't let Anarci read this. He thinks Lopez was the Minimumweight Juilio Cesar Chavez.

Against Alvarez, Lopez was getting caught by shots that weren't all that hard to see coming. Myung-Yuh could fight from anywhere, but I think he'd want to mix it with mid-range and up close against the slightly taller, up right Lopez. He could catch him with the leaping left, just as Alvarez would find success, and Lopez's frame would be ripe for a few body shots...especially with his high guard. I just see Yuh's resistance being too great for Lopez, who isn't used to getting hit for 12 rounds. Don't think Lopez has the urgency to take Yuh's out of his comfort zone.
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