Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2009, 11:03 AM   #16
haglerforever
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Great white north
Posts: 196
vCash: 500
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Just thinking Ron Lyle .. much different fighter than tyson ,but he hurt foreman, badly(what a war).Foreman knocked him out ,but if tyson hurt george he would knock him out, he was to fast for foreman. I guess same thing if foreman hurts tyson first. Foreman would not be afraid though and most of tyson victims were.Joe Frazier in 1970 would give both these guys all they could handle maybe more...
haglerforever is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-12-2009, 11:16 AM   #17
Duodenum
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,802
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Tyson lacked Lyle's height and reach. Just getting to Foreman's chin would have been problematic for him. Smith physically smothered him, and James didn't have George's freakish strength. Foreman would have placed his hands on Mike's broad shoulders and shoved him all over the ring. Tyson would have few chances to get set and unload. If he did manage to fire back, he'd have no more success than Cooney and Morrison did. Mike's power wasn't all that. He failed to drop Green, Smith and Tucker, and was only able to produce an insignificant flash knockdown on Tillis. (Shavers landed a far more devastating knockdown punch on Tillis. Both Holmes and Tillis rated Earnie a harder puncher than Tyson.)

Foreman wouldn't take a backwards step here. Tyson didn't have Morrison's height and reach, and would not have been able to win by retreating and outmaneuvering George. (Frazier was resourceful in his rematch with Foreman, but he was boxing a battle of survival, and still dominated by George.)

George wanted Tyson, the media promoted the idea of a match between the two, and the public wanted to see it. Why did it not come off? Who was responsible for preventing it from happening?

Just before Tyson bit off a chunk of Holyfield's ear, Evander shoved him back several feet. Foreman didn't take a backwards step against Holyfield. Foreman-Tyson = Man versus Boy. This is a really bad match up for Tyson, and Mike knew it.
Duodenum is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 11:23 AM   #18
Shake
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,519
vCash: 75
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

I don't think Tyson can move Foreman back, and I don't think he can eat those uppercuts for long. Tyson either uses handspeed and buzzes Foreman early with and finishes him (something that might not even be possible with his beard) or Foreman gets to him before 6 rounds.
Shake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 11:28 AM   #19
Boxed Ears
Irony Himmler
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nakalenisuka, Russia
Posts: 24,134
vCash: 26665
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
Tyson lacked Lyle's height and reach. Just getting to Foreman's chin would have been problematic for him. Smith physically smothered him, and James didn't have George's freakish strength. Foreman would have placed his hands on Mike's broad shoulders and shoved him all over the ring. Tyson would have few chances to get set and unload. If he did manage to fire back, he'd have no more success than Cooney and Morrison did. Mike's power wasn't all that. He failed to drop Green, Smith and Tucker, and was only able to produce an insignificant flash knockdown on Tillis. (Shavers landed a far more devastating knockdown punch on Tillis. Both Holmes and Tillis rated Earnie a harder puncher than Tyson.)

Foreman wouldn't take a backwards step here. Tyson didn't have Morrison's height and reach, and would not have been able to win by retreating and outmaneuvering George. (Frazier was resourceful in his rematch with Foreman, but he was boxing a battle of survival, and still dominated by George.)

George wanted Tyson, the media promoted the idea of a match between the two, and the public wanted to see it. Why did it not come off? Who was responsible for preventing it from happening?

Just before Tyson bit off a chunk of Holyfield's ear, Evander shoved him back several feet. Foreman didn't take a backwards step against Holyfield. Foreman-Tyson = Man versus Boy. This is a really bad match up for Tyson, and Mike knew it.
Two things just for a good discussion:

1. The Foreman push is so often overlooked. Cracked me up actually. He didn't have room to unload on somebody trying to smother him and he just shoved them around like they were nothing and fired at his preferred distance. I don't know why more people don't mention that.

2. I recall Holmes saying that Shavers was a harder puncher but that Tyson was a "sharper" one and as far as I can remember Shavers wasn't too quick or great with combining punches. It's been a while since I've seen a Shavers fight. A long while so please feel free to correct me if I'm way off, but I remember him being not particularly capable of putting the punches together and thinking that if he was, he'd murder everyone he had lost to. That's why I don't think it's a definite loss for Tyson. Fast combination power puncher. Maybe would surprise me if he got hot early. But I'm still with you that the odds are Foreman is too much for Mike in being all the worst things for him.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 11:43 AM   #20
DDA365
Gatecrasher
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 798
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

I think Tysons power always gets overlooked whenever this match up comes up. Maybe because of the frazier fights everybody just sees it looking the same, and it probably would do however I think Tyson definitely had the power to hurt george and if he did hurt him hed probably get him out of there, and hes every bit as likely if not more to land a big one than foreman imo.

I see this as a pretty even match up, and it would just depend on who hurt who first.
DDA365 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 12:30 PM   #21
Duodenum
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,802
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Two things just for a good discussion:

1. The Foreman push is so often overlooked. Cracked me up actually. He didn't have room to unload on somebody trying to smother him and he just shoved them around like they were nothing and fired at his preferred distance. I don't know why more people don't mention that.
In his day, Jim Jeffries was actually lauded for his use of this tactic. The Foreman shove is my lingering image of him from the Morrison fight, where he pushes Tommy off with repeated casual forearm extensions. Morrison was booed by the crowd at times for the way he circled right constantly, sometimes even breaking into a run, but George hardly gave him the option of coming in, and Tommy was brilliant at using Foreman's own strength to accelerate his retreat. (The path of least resistance.)
Quote:
2. I recall Holmes saying that Shavers was a harder puncher but that Tyson was a "sharper" one and as far as I can remember Shavers wasn't too quick or great with combining punches. It's been a while since I've seen a Shavers fight. A long while so please feel free to correct me if I'm way off, but I remember him being not particularly capable of putting the punches together and thinking that if he was, he'd murder everyone he had lost to. That's why I don't think it's a definite loss for Tyson. Fast combination power puncher. Maybe would surprise me if he got hot early. But I'm still with you that the odds are Foreman is too much for Mike in being all the worst things for him.
Earnie had underrated hand speed with a reported 80 inch reach. He was capable of delivering a long straight right as well as a deadly roundhouse, and his hook was badly overlooked. (He dropped Lyle with his hook, and initially staggered Norton with it.) But no, Shavers certainly wasn't a controlled combination puncher, while Tyson was one of the best heavyweights I've seen at putting punches together. It's not a definite loss for Tyson, but having an opportunity to execute a combination on George while being continually moved back presents a daunting logistical challenge.

As fast starting as Mike was, there's no way he'd catch Foreman cold out of the gate. If he did manage to hurt George without killing him, he could find himself in the same fix Cooney was in after landing that big hook, confronted with a roused and concerned beast. The war with Lyle showed that he could be extremely dangerous if in distress.
Duodenum is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 01:07 PM   #22
johnmaff36
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 2,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Tough call either way but i have to go with big george as he was just too big and strong for tyson. Forget tyson KOing those 6ft 3in/4in mugs in his early fights. Any tall fighter with a bit if savvy always gave tyson trouble and Foreman was a bit better than most
johnmaff36 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 01:41 PM   #23
cuchulain
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muirthemne
Posts: 10,274
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Both prime, and undamaged:

Tyson ( 1989) v Foreman (late 1973)

Big George , by KO.

Last edited by cuchulain; 12-12-2009 at 02:49 PM.
cuchulain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2009, 04:39 PM   #24
clark
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 738
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Foreman wins this by knockout. Lyle caught George with a picture perfect shot to George's temple. That punch would have probably killed most
anyone else. George was rusty but still ko'd Lyle. (I brought that up because so many use the Lyle fight to explain why George could be beat by certain fighters).
clark is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 03:31 PM   #25
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by itrymariti View Post
Chin? Frazier had one of the best chins ever, and was never laid out cold in the way Tyson was against Douglas and Lewis.
Frazier did NOT have one of the best chins ever.

And you say Frazier was never laid out cold like Tyson, well at least Tyson lasted more than 2 rounds against Lennox Lewis and Douglas
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 04:27 PM   #26
clark
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 738
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Lewis and Douglas weren't Foreman.
clark is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 05:26 PM   #27
OBCboxer
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 3,886
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster4Life View Post
Foreman Beats mike prime For Prime,

Someone here said that Tysons Mid range was good against foreman
Yeah it wouldn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster4Life View Post
Anyone who has seen the Foreman V Frazier Fight would Know Foreman didnt beat Joe on the Inside, he PUSHED Frazier to MID RANGE and Destroyed him.

So infact mike's Mid Range Style Is Good For George.
Frazier is nothing like Tyson and wouldn't hold like Tyson would thus allowing himself to be tossed around. Also, the ref was a factor in allowing the illegal shoving to happen constantly. If you get a stern ref in there he wouldn't allow Foreman to shove in Tyson in this fight. This would allow Tyson to do damage with his vastly superior speed, combined with power on the inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster4Life View Post
Mike Would Lunge in and Foreman Would Land those Uppercuts, then he would Push Mike away (Mike Likes to Rest when he jumps in), He Would Man Handle Mike Just like he Did to Joe. mike's a Good Fighter but He doesnt Beat Prime George.
No Mike wouldn't just lunge in blindly; he would use head movement to get in. Mike's head movement would be hard for Big George to time with his uppercuts.
OBCboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 06:20 PM   #28
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
Tyson lacked Lyle's height and reach. Just getting to Foreman's chin would have been problematic for him. Smith physically smothered him, and James didn't have George's freakish strength. Foreman would have placed his hands on Mike's broad shoulders and shoved him all over the ring. Tyson would have few chances to get set and unload. If he did manage to fire back, he'd have no more success than Cooney and Morrison did. Mike's power wasn't all that. He failed to drop Green, Smith and Tucker, and was only able to produce an insignificant flash knockdown on Tillis. (Shavers landed a far more devastating knockdown punch on Tillis. Both Holmes and Tillis rated Earnie a harder puncher than Tyson.)

Foreman wouldn't take a backwards step here. Tyson didn't have Morrison's height and reach, and would not have been able to win by retreating and outmaneuvering George. (Frazier was resourceful in his rematch with Foreman, but he was boxing a battle of survival, and still dominated by George.)

George wanted Tyson, the media promoted the idea of a match between the two, and the public wanted to see it. Why did it not come off? Who was responsible for preventing it from happening?

Just before Tyson bit off a chunk of Holyfield's ear, Evander shoved him back several feet. Foreman didn't take a backwards step against Holyfield. Foreman-Tyson = Man versus Boy. This is a really bad match up for Tyson, and Mike knew it.


I always favor Foreman in this matchup. Foreman always has an edge in toughness and heart as far as I'm concerned. Honestly, it's one of the fantasy fights that I'm confident in picking. I just don't like this matchup for Tyson.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 06:53 PM   #29
Muchmoore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Unhappy Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark View Post
Lewis and Douglas weren't Foreman.
Lennox Lewis would of beat the shit out of George Foreman. Even if you don't hold this belief, he's still generally regarded as the better HW.

Anyway, how does that even matter even if that was true. Tyson isn't Ron ****ing Lyle either who has a grand total of ONE knockout over a ranked fighter, that being over the stamina and durability lacking Shavers but nonetheless still came within inches of stopping George.
And with regards to Frazier, it's worth noting that Foreman is the only top puncher he ever faced, and we saw what happened.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 07:08 PM   #30
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Tyson vs Foreman in their prime????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
Lennox Lewis would of beat the shit out of George Foreman. Even if you don't hold this belief, he's still generally regarded as the better HW.
on ESB. Outside of it I don't think he is, though.

And honestly, Lewis is way too passive to beat the shit out of Foreman when dealing with a fighter with as much power, height, strength, and reach as him. In fact, Foreman could stark Lewis.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013