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Old 12-12-2009, 12:25 AM   #1
Imira
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Default Sandy Saddler

Big, strong, resourceful and dirty.

Stopped only one time in 161 fights.

Mastered Willie Pep.

Personally, I believe Saddler should rate over Pep. He was just too much for Will O' the Wisp to handle. Even in the fight that Pep won he looked like he had been in a fight with a blunderbuss.

Ok, I think that's enough gasoline on the fire.

Give me your thoughts on one of the greatest featherweights of all time...
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

Yes, Sandler knew all those dirty tricks american style.

btw, nice avatar babe.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:29 AM   #3
Russell
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

Stopped once early in his career, while green and young. Armstrong style. He was never close to being stopped again as far as I know.

Iron chin.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

Pep by all accounts put on a great performance and mastered Saddler in their second fight. The only fight that was one-sided in Sandy's favor was the first fight, where his tactics overwhelmed Pep early. The 3rd and 4th fights bring Pep's heart into question a lot more than Saddler's skills, as he was winning both by all accounts before basically just giving up. Then again he seperated his shoulder in the 3rd bout so the excuse there is legitimate. I sure as hell wouldn't want to go 8 more rounds with a dirty scoundrel like Saddler if I was injured. Both were starting to slide by the 4th fight (Pep obviously moreso by that point), but Pep more or less just gave that one up in another fight where he was leading on the cards.

I'd think if Pep were in his physical prime (pre-crash) that he'd have had Saddler's number rather than vice-versa. Then again he may very well have dropped the first fight in somewhat similar fashion due to not being able to cope with Saddler's dirty tactics.
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
Pep by all accounts put on a great performance and mastered Saddler in their second fight. The only fight that was one-sided in Sandy's favor was the first fight, where his tactics overwhelmed Pep early. The 3rd and 4th fights bring Pep's heart into question a lot more than Saddler's skills, as he was winning both by all accounts before basically just giving up. Then again he seperated his shoulder in the 3rd bout so the excuse there is legitimate. I sure as hell wouldn't want to go 8 more rounds with a dirty scoundrel like Saddler if I was injured. Both were starting to slide by the 4th fight (Pep obviously moreso by that point), but Pep more or less just gave that one up in another fight where he was leading on the cards.

I'd think if Pep were in his physical prime (pre-crash) that he'd have had Saddler's number rather than vice-versa. Then again he may very well have dropped the first fight in somewhat similar fashion due to not being able to cope with Saddler's dirty tactics.
I tend to agree with this. Pep's strength and - more crucially - his mobility had declined a bit post-crash with Saddler being by far his biggest test since. Despite him notching up some good wins, he allegedly had tougher than average fights with Wilmer, Biesca and Sierra in which it was apparent that he wasn't quite the same, although still formidable. Still, the 1-3 record against Saddler doesn't quite reflect the closeness of the series throughout outside of Pep 'quitting' in the third and fourth fights.

Saddler had been in training with Archie Moore prior to the 1st fight, which can't have hurt his chances when it came to devising an appropriate plan to take Pep out of his stride. Watching him, his power and delivery on the inside and at mid-range was remarkable for such a tall man, especially in the right hand. He was somewhat ungainly and slow for an elite champion but always seemed to make up for it through sheer determination, dirtiness, toughness and frightening power. I've always thought he had underrated footwork too, being good at cutting off the ring and therefore setting himself up to drag a fight onto his terms. Far from the classic type of ring general but outstanding at what did in making opponents fight his fight. He beat some good opposition too, even outside of Pep, although his most notable wins are somewhat circumstancial as well having beaten a fair bit of dross.

I don't think I'd rank him above Pep at feather, but my knowledge isn't exactly complete by a historian's standards. He was a truly great fighter though who was unfortunate in the sense that he shredded up a more popular, charismatic champion, which probably didn't endear him to the masses as much as his aesthetically unpleasing (but very effective) style didn't.

A nightmare for just about any featherweight who ever lived though.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

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Originally Posted by Imira View Post

Personally, I believe Saddler should rate over Pep. He was just too much for Will O' the Wisp to handle. Even in the fight that Pep won he looked like he had been in a fight with a blunderbuss.
I personally rate him over Pep as well.

Pep gets rated over Saddler by so many people because of his greater consistency at the weight, plus also speculation of what he "would've" done in a series with Saddler if he hadn't suffered that horrific plane crash. While it's hardly out of the realm of possibility that Pep might've gotten the better of the series pre-plane crash, I personally don't think it's fair to rate a fighter based on speculation and downplay what another fighter actually did and proved in the ring. Pep's win in his second fight with Saddler certainly shows he could beat Saddler, but the way he was so utterly crushed in their first fight (in which Pep was a big favorite coming in) shows what Saddler could potentially do to him at any point.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

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Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
I personally rate him over Pep as well.

Pep gets rated over Saddler by so many people because of his greater consistency at the weight, plus also speculation of what he "would've" done in a series with Saddler if he hadn't suffered that horrific plane crash. While it's hardly out of the realm of possibility that Pep might've gotten the better of the series pre-plane crash, I personally don't think it's fair to rate a fighter based on speculation and downplay what another fighter actually did and proved in the ring. Pep's win in his second fight with Saddler certainly shows he could beat Saddler, but the way he was so utterly crushed in their first fight (in which Pep was a big favorite coming in) shows what Saddler could potentially do to him at any point.
Do you not think that Pep had a longer and more dominant reign as champion? With better names on his ledger?

Or would you say that the way Saddler came out on top in their series is the defining factor when it comes to appraising both of them?

I wouldn't argue either way, but tend to go with the initial assessment of Pep being the more consistent and dominant champion prior to meeting Saddler.
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

Used to run in Central Park with Sandy Saddler some years after he hung 'em up. Looked like he could still make feather.

A PROUD PROUD guy. His back would stiffen immediately at the mention of Pep.
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:47 PM   #9
Tin_Ribs
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

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Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
Used to run in Central Park with Sandy Saddler some years after he hung 'em up. Looked like he could still make feather.

A PROUD PROUD guy. His back would stiffen immediately at the mention of Pep.


What's your take on him john?
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:59 PM   #10
john garfield
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

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Originally Posted by Tin_Ribs View Post


What's your take on him john?
As a fighter, at his best, he was an implacable search-'n-destroy machine.

As a guy, he kept everything close to the vest. Spoke few words. Took a long time to warm to someone. Always wary.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

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Originally Posted by Imira View Post
Big, strong, resourceful and dirty.

Stopped only one time in 161 fights.

Mastered Willie Pep.

Personally, I believe Saddler should rate over Pep. He was just too much for Will O' the Wisp to handle. Even in the fight that Pep won he looked like he had been in a fight with a blunderbuss.

Ok, I think that's enough gasoline on the fire.

Give me your thoughts on one of the greatest featherweights of all time...
agreed
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imira View Post
Big, strong, resourceful and dirty.

Stopped only one time in 161 fights.

Mastered Willie Pep.

Personally, I believe Saddler should rate over Pep. He was just too much for Will O' the Wisp to handle. Even in the fight that Pep won he looked like he had been in a fight with a blunderbuss.

Ok, I think that's enough gasoline on the fire.

Give me your thoughts on one of the greatest featherweights of all time...
Arguably number 1 ,I have him at 2 behind Willie .
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Sandy Saddler

At the weight, Saddler may be close in number to Pep. All-time p4p....not near.
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