Ruben Olivares vs Naseem Hamed - two explosive punchers... Who takes it?

[Addie]

Originally Posted by GPater11093

Olivares was a fighting machine a stone-cold destroyer in the ring, the man had no emotion

Hamed was a flash IMO talent but fundamentally flawed, Olivares had weaknesses but he was very well rounded and loked to cover up his weaknesses. Hamed made no attempt to improve his weaknesses and equalised it with as big punch but Olivares could take Hameds punch and punch him back just as hard

Olivares KO 8

I'm not convinced. Olivares was knocked out by lesser fighters than Hamed at 126lbs, it wasn't his best weight.

[Tin_Ribs]

Originally Posted by Addie

I'm not convinced. Olivares was knocked out by lesser fighters than Hamed at 126lbs, it wasn't his best weight.

And Hamed struggled with the likes of Ingle, Medina, Kelley, Soto and Sanchez, all of whom were inferior to Olivares. It swings in roundabouts.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by Tin_Ribs

And Hamed struggled with the likes of Ingle, Medina, Kelley, Soto and Sanchez, all of whom were inferior to Olivares. It swings in roundabouts.

Ingle, Medina, Kelly, Soto, and Sanchez never knocked Hamed out. Overriding point being, Hamed was never ever knocked out at 126lbs, and because this was a battle of punchesr you'd expect one of them to face the 10 count. I'm not making a pick, I'm just saying that given how Olivares was not at his best at 126lbs and that he had been stopped by lesser fighters than Hamed, one could see people picking against him here.

[Tin_Ribs]

Originally Posted by Addie

Ingle, Medina, Kelly, Soto, and Sanchez never knocked Hamed out. Overriding point being, Hamed was never ever knocked out at 126lbs, and because this was a battle of punchesr you'd expect one of them to face the 10 count. I'm not making a pick, I'm just saying that given how Olivares was not at his best at 126lbs and that he had been stopped by lesser fighters than Hamed, one could see people picking against him here.

I know. It's a train of thought I'd entertained myself to be honest. But I'd still pick the best 126 version of Olivares based on the styles. Not that it's the definitive factor, but I'd say that even the green 126 version of Arguello was better than Hamed. Yes, Olivares lost to him, but he was also outmanoevreing him prior to being caught in the 13th with Arguello providing a much greater stylistic problem than Hamed would IMO.

And despite Hamed never being knocked out, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that Olivares could lay him out stone cold.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by Tin_Ribs

I know. It's a train of thought I'd entertained myself to be honest. But I'd still pick the best 126 version of Olivares based on the styles. Not that it's the definitive factor, but I'd say that even the green 126 version of Arguello was better than Hamed. Yes, Olivares lost to him, but he was also outmanoevreing him prior to being caught in the 13th with Arguello providing a much greater stylistic problem than Hamed would IMO.

And despite Hamed never being knocked out, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that Olivares could lay him out stone cold.

Fair enough. We'll never know, but Hamed is very live here.

[Tin_Ribs]

Originally Posted by Addie

Fair enough. We'll never know, but Hamed is very live here.

[GPater11093]

Originally Posted by Addie

I'm not convinced. Olivares was knocked out by lesser fighters than Hamed at 126lbs, it wasn't his best weight.

He also beat anbd gave better fighters hell (well maybe never beat) but definitly is up there.

[PowerPuncher]

This is a really easy pick, Hamed within 4. Olivares come forward in straight lines and leads with the left hook, which is suicide against Hamed. Hamed is a great great great counter puncher with a great radar despite him ripping the rule book he'd smash Olivares on the way in time and again.

Barrera used to often fight the same way as Olivares and theres a good reason he choose to box and not brawl against Hamed

[scartissue]

I think Ruben Olivares gets a raw deal today by how some people perceive him from what may have been written on him. I think he may be thought of today as pure slugger who partied continuously. Far from it. Ruben was a complete fighter and the heavy partying didn't start until his 126 lb. days when he would take what he would feel was an innocuous opponent (Hafey, Mendoza, Kotey) lightly. If you want to see boxing brilliance, watch the Olivares-Hafey rematch. This was a featherweight Ali-Frazier with Olivares as Ali. Art was a tremendous banger but Ruben showed what a beautiful boxer he was when he needed to be. Against Mendoza, he was decked twice in another 10 rounder down Mexico way before turning on the gas and knocking him out in 6. Mendoza then went on an amazing winning streak culminating in his very valiant bid at Wilfredo Gomez' 122 lb. title. Zenzuke Utagawa said after his match with Olivares that he had always felt that Sho Saiyjo had the best jab he had ever seen...until he fought Ruben. Also, if one watches that match, one will see a masterful performance at calmly breaking down an opponent to the body before moving to the head. Ruben's punching power cannot be denied at 118, but he also carried it to 126. Beside twice stopping the embodiment of tough Bobby Chacon, he is also the only man to stop Walter Seeley and Jose Luis Ramirez. And lastly, lets not forget the imposing physical advantages of Alexis Arguello (5'10" to 5'5") and yet Ruben Olivares was 'kicking the crap' out of Arguello. This is a point most people forget and need to watch that fight. I don't mean to sully the name of Arguello, who is a favorite of mine and is a true all-time great, but he got lucky in that 13th. I felt he started the fight well until Ruben figured him out and it was all Olivares from about the 5th on. I had that fight 8-2-2 through 12 completed rounds for Ruben. I read where Arguello stated he felt like quitting in one of the later rounds the beating was that bad. My point is that Olivares was far more than just banger. He had a boxing brain and there wouldn't be much to figuring out a Hamed.

Scartissue

[WhataRock]

Hamed is more then a live chance but some people are just so ridiculously ignorant when it comes to Olivares its beyond funny.

He was a great boxer-puncher and he was far better at the boxer part of that label then most give him credit for. He could be a very smooth counter puncher at times and not many put punches together to the head and body like he could..And though his chin did let him down at times, I would say its far from weak or even a real liability for Ruben at all.

Nicely said scar...I think realistically they would both win some fights in a series given how hard they both punched and yes Ruben lost a little shine at featherweight where Naz would be the bigger man. I just dont like Hamed's chances of coming back from a brutal loss like Ruben could though. Even if Naz did win, which I said is more then a live chance, I could very well see it being a pyrrhic victory for him..Effecting him enough that he might be in two minds on how to deal with Ruben in the inevitable rematch. I could see a Chapo-Macho moment happening at any point in a fight between these two and like I said Id back Ruben's ability to come back from adversity to see him come out the winning fighter in a series.

[RockyJim]

Olivares by KO...as Hamed is sent back to the Cartoon Network where he belongs...

[Mantequilla]

Originally Posted by scartissue

I think Ruben Olivares gets a raw deal today by how some people perceive him from what may have been written on him. I think he may be thought of today as pure slugger who partied continuously. Far from it. Ruben was a complete fighter and the heavy partying didn't start until his 126 lb. days when he would take what he would feel was an innocuous opponent (Hafey, Mendoza, Kotey) lightly. If you want to see boxing brilliance, watch the Olivares-Hafey rematch. This was a featherweight Ali-Frazier with Olivares as Ali. Art was a tremendous banger but Ruben showed what a beautiful boxer he was when he needed to be. Against Mendoza, he was decked twice in another 10 rounder down Mexico way before turning on the gas and knocking him out in 6. Mendoza then went on an amazing winning streak culminating in his very valiant bid at Wilfredo Gomez' 122 lb. title. Zenzuke Utagawa said after his match with Olivares that he had always felt that Sho Saiyjo had the best jab he had ever seen...until he fought Ruben. Also, if one watches that match, one will see a masterful performance at calmly breaking down an opponent to the body before moving to the head. Ruben's punching power cannot be denied at 118, but he also carried it to 126. Beside twice stopping the embodiment of tough Bobby Chacon, he is also the only man to stop Walter Seeley and Jose Luis Ramirez. And lastly, lets not forget the imposing physical advantages of Alexis Arguello (5'10" to 5'5") and yet Ruben Olivares was 'kicking the crap' out of Arguello. This is a point most people forget and need to watch that fight. I don't mean to sully the name of Arguello, who is a favorite of mine and is a true all-time great, but he got lucky in that 13th. I felt he started the fight well until Ruben figured him out and it was all Olivares from about the 5th on. I had that fight 8-2-2 through 12 completed rounds for Ruben. I read where Arguello stated he felt like quitting in one of the later rounds the beating was that bad. My point is that Olivares was far more than just banger. He had a boxing brain and there wouldn't be much to figuring out a Hamed.

Scartissue

Can't agree absout Olivares vs Arguello.I thought Olicares had only taken command of what had been a fairly uneventful bout in the last 2-3 rounds by getting more aggressive and working Arguello on the inside, but he ended up getting knocked out soon after adopting that strategy.

That fight and Benvenuti vs rodriguez are overplayed as comeback knockout wins imo.

Agree he would handle hamed, however.

[GPater11093]

Originally Posted by Mantequilla

Can't agree absout Olivares vs Arguello.I thought Olicares had only taken command of what had been a fairly uneventful bout in the last 2-3 rounds by getting more aggressive and working Arguello on the inside, but he ended up getting knocked out soon after adopting that strategy.

That fight and Benvenuti vs rodriguez are overplayed as comeback knockout wins imo.

Agree he would handle hamed, however.

I agree with you however i thought it was a good fight, i thought it was close till the last few rounds when Olivares started being more aggresive but it was at a cost as he took more damage and was later KOd

[lolb]

Would be an interesting match up but I feel Olivares would be to busy for Hamed and get the decision. He would have a few scares along the way and may have to get off the floor to win. He would need to fight a fairly controlled fight as Naz is so unpredictable and can punch from crazy angles. But I just see Ruben out working him over the course of the fight.

It was a shame the way Hameds career went. I don't think we got to see him at his absolute peak.

[Frazier Hook]

Don't know why so many people are counting Hamed out in this one. First off Olivares wasnt at his peak as a Featherweight and was knocked out a few good times at the weight.

Hamed at his peak, focused and dedicated. May of very well scored a KO/TKO victory over Olivares.

I expect there would of been numerous knockdowns in the fight, but I see Hamed finsihing Olivares off a in the mid rounds with a devasting uppercut right cross combination in a fight of the year candite.