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Old 12-21-2009, 11:46 AM   #31
Bill Butcher
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

Robinson, Hearns & Leonard of the 2nd Duran fight all beat him.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:51 AM   #32
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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Duran did not train a lick after Montreal. And the Leonard camp knew he would react this way which is why they booked the fight for as soon as possible. And per the topic question, I would lay my money on this version of Duran over just about any welter that can be mentioned. Basilio is a nice idea, Robinson does not provide enough footage at that weight for me to assess...
You seen how Robinson handled MWs & he was still in his prime then, there is grainy footage of his WW days & there is good footage of his very 1st MW days, there wouldnt be a big difference in his style, only the fact that he is battering bigger men in the MW division.

Robinson would tear Duran up.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:53 AM   #33
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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Noboby beats Duran on that night.
Nah, SRL came mighty close fighting Duran`s fight.

Robinson would **** him up badly.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

I honestly think Duran was capable of beating Robinson on that night. It would've likely been an upset that Robinson rebounded from, but that style of rough, uber-skilled clinch-fighting may've been exactly what was needed to take Robinson out of his comfort zone. I think Duran had the tools to pull off the upset if he was on the same form as he was for that fight. Again though, I'd fully expect Robinson to make the adjustments to get the win in a rematch. Hopefully Duran wouldn't have been in as pitiful condition for it as he was the Leonard rematch, though.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:48 PM   #35
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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Robinson, Hearns & Leonard of the 2nd Duran fight all beat him.
No chance. He woyuld still get to Leonard; he was more focused.

He'd get to Hearns eventually too.

Robinson vs THAT Duran might be the greatest Welterweight fight ever.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:14 PM   #36
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

First of all, the fight was very close. Duran fought the best fight he ever fought. Leonard fought well but he did not fight to the best of his ability.

So, the first person I will pick is a well prepared Sugar Ray Leonard. Leonard easily beat Duran in the rematch. I'm not saying he beat Duran at Duran's very best, but I do think the rematch was a good indication of what a fight between the best ever WW version of Duran vs. the best ever WW version of Leonard would look like.

Other great WWs that would beat this version of Duran?

Sugar Ray Robinson was the best ever at this weight.

Henry Armstrong would have an excellent chance of beating Duran at LW or WW.

Kid Gavilan had a head carved out of diamond. He was never stopped in 143 pro fights and Duran wouldn't stop him either. Gavilan had a considerable height and reach advantage. Both men had good speed but Gavilan was more elusive. Duran punched much harder. It's a pick-em fight imo.

Thomas Hearns crushed him at 154 and I don't see why he couldn't do it at 147Lbs.

Wilfred Benitez beat Duran at 154 and I think he would have an excellent chance at doing it at 147 as well.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:19 PM   #37
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

Duran Leonard 1 was only so close because DUran eased up late, likely feeling he had the fight won.through 12 Leonard was lucky if he took 4 clear rounds.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:35 PM   #38
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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I'm not saying he beat Duran at Duran's very best, but I do think the rematch was a good indication of what a fight between the best ever WW version of Duran vs. the best ever WW version of Leonard would look like.
The first matchup was a much better indicator. Leonard was in prime shape just as Duran was, there are no excuses outside of the typical "Leonard fought the wrong fight" mumbo jumbo. Maybe because Duran made him fight that fight? I doubt very strongly if Leonard meant to be stung by those huge shots during the 2nd and 4th rounds, backed up and beaten up on the ropes. He attempted to box within range, as he typically did, Duran was just a master of closing and keeping the distance.

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Both men had good speed but Gavilan was more elusive.
Hardly.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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That was "Big Book of Boxing" the result one also had a great tribute to Victor Galindez right before he died.
Right you are, and I have that January 1981 issue in hand as I type. Farhood's tribute to Galindez was indeed an excellent and timely accolade.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:58 PM   #40
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

Hey, I'm being unbiased. Duran vs. Leonard I was a close fight... no matter what the reason was.

Duran was already a legend. Leonard looked to be the future of the sport. Duran fought the best fight of his career... Leonard would get better. Leonard had a great win over Benitez but he hadn't even fought Hearns yet.

Duran was totally outclassed in the 2nd and 3rd fights.

As for Kid Gavilan? Yeah, he was more elusive than Duran in my opinion. Duran did some subtle things in the ring but he was far from a slickster. I'm not saying Gavilan would beat him. I'm just saying he would have a chance. As for Duran hurting Gavilan? Forget about it!
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

I liked Duran a lot... but sometimes too much is made of his career pre-Leonard.

He beat Buchanan in a very dirty fight (KO13) but they never fought again.

He was dropped and beat by DeJesus (L10) but DeJesus waited a long time for a rematch. DeJesus dropped him in the rematch as well. Duran won the 2nd (KO11) and 3rd (KO12) fights.

He beat Palomino (W10) who had already lost to Benitez.

Instead of thinking he was one of the best WWs ever when he beat Leonard... try thinking he rose to the occasion that night and see how that fits ya!

"Montreal Duran" is that like "Tokyo Douglas"?
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

To each his own, but you're the only person I know who'd insinuate that Gavilan had the better defense than Duran. Duran may have had the best defense of any such brand of offensive fighter in the history of the sport.
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:21 PM   #43
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

Hell, I'd take the Duran of the Palomino fight against damn near any Welterweight as well.
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:33 PM   #44
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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Hell, I'd take the Duran of the Palomino fight against damn near any Welterweight as well.
Me Too
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:41 PM   #45
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Default Re: What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

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Robinson, Hearns & Leonard of the 2nd Duran fight all beat him.
I'd second that with a few others having a reasonable shot, Benitez, Gavilan, Napoles; even the likes of SSM and ODLH might have an outside chance though it would be only that.

Much is made of Duran in Montreal (and he was great that night) but SRL played into his hands and fought the wrong type of fight for him. And paid for it. It's true that a lot that is down to what Duran did but still, SRL tried to impose himself, being the bigger man, and it was exactly what Duran wanted. Put it another way. Does the Duran of the first fight beat the SRL fighting the tactics of the 2nd fight? I've already argued previously why I think Tommy still gets to Duran at WW. SRR is the consumate all-round fighter, like Duran but bigger.
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