Leonard - Best Boxer In Last 30 Yrs

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Not to mention won the big fights, most of them, while Duran didn't really other than Leonard. I have all 3 of them top 10, in whatever order, but I am starting to think Duran places last among them.

How many guys has duran beat that are better than buddy mcgirt, besides leonard of course. I think pernell's wins over 2 atgs like nelson and chavez will take away the leonard win anyways, cuz duran won that fight by like 1 fuckin point.

Every guy that Pernell fought during his title run was either a beltholder or a top contender. Duran fought quite a few bums during his reign as lightweight king.

[Bill Butcher]

whitaker & chavez are right up there with the very best aswell, they might be my 3rd & 4th picks (dont know what order) but I think srl & duran lead the pack & from a pure boxing standpoint, I got to go with sugar ray leonard.

I think a whitaker duran match at lwt would be amazing & if anyone could beat these guys at lwt it might be each other.
The reason i lean towards duran is that murderous power, pea had some defence but he would get hit by duran & he would feel those hits big time at 135.

same as pea vs srl at 147, great boxing chess match in the mold of srl benitez & I think it goes the same way, leonards power would be the decisive factor & he beats whitaker by close but not too debatable ud.

As I says before, the leonard of `no mas` was the best in 30 yrs.
the srl of the 1st hearns fight was also very good but I felt he lost a bit of speed in hands & feet after coming back down to 147 from 154 in the kalule fight.
Im a firm believer that if you move up in weight & you can handle the weight then dont go back down for any fight, let your rivals come up to face you.

Nobody beats the sugar ray leonard of `no mas` & that is as good a boxer as Ive seen in the last 30 yrs & his welterweight peak, he made a very good (tho not 100%) duran look ordinary.

Leonard was, is & will always be the master of his time to many many fans, phenomenal athlete & fighter.

sugar ray all the way.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by Bill Butcher

whitaker & chavez are right up there with the very best aswell, they might be my 3rd & 4th picks (dont know what order) but I think srl & duran lead the pack & from a pure boxing standpoint, I got to go with sugar ray leonard.

I think a whitaker duran match at lwt would be amazing & if anyone could beat these guys at lwt it might be each other.
The reason i lean towards duran is that murderous power, pea had some defence but he would get hit by duran & he would feel those hits big time at 135.

same as pea vs srl at 147, great boxing chess match in the mold of srl benitez & I think it goes the same way, leonards power would be the decisive factor & he beats whitaker by close but not too debatable ud.

As I says before, the leonard of `no mas` was the best in 30 yrs.
the srl of the 1st hearns fight was also very good but I felt he lost a bit of speed in hands & feet after coming back down to 147 from 154 in the kalule fight.
Im a firm believer that if you move up in weight & you can handle the weight then dont go back down for any fight, let your rivals come up to face you.

Nobody beats the sugar ray leonard of `no mas` & that is as good a boxer as Ive seen in the last 30 yrs & his welterweight peak, he made a very good (tho not 100%) duran look ordinary.

Leonard was, is & will always be the master of his time to many many fans, phenomenal athlete & fighter.

sugar ray all the way.

'oh god no it's the leonard of no mas'

He lost "a bit of speed" coming down from 154. that explains why he was outboxed for 12 rounds.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by redrooster

'oh god no it's the leonard of no mas'

He lost "a bit of speed" coming down from 154. that explains why he was outboxed for 12 rounds.

Leonard was a super star and an all time great who was definately one of the best. Admit that rooster, like we all know that you want to, and let's put this thread to rest.

Relieve yourself of this sugary burden. you know you want to concede and be accepted. The first step to recovery is identifying the problem

[cuchulain]

Originally Posted by Bill Butcher

Ive only ever heard of 1 person who thinks norris would beat leonard prime for prime & thats you rooster.

You think srl cant handle fast hard punches, what about hearns & duran, especially tommy.

Norris would probably admit himself that srl would hand him his ass in their primes... fuck, even HAGLER would say ray would win that 1


The leonard of the 2nd duran fight was the best there has been in the last 30 yrs, just watch his constant foot movement & pin point punches, no-one in or around welterweight beats that leonard imo & I`d go all the way to 160 with that statement.

At 160, he loses (badly) to Jones.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Bill Butcher

I think a whitaker duran match at lwt would be amazing & if anyone could beat these guys at lwt it might be each other.The reason i lean towards duran is that murderous power, pea had some defence but he would get hit by duran & he would feel those hits big time at 135.

Duran has a great stoppage record at lightweight, but he was not a murderous puncher. Well that depends on a persons viewpoint of exactly how effective a fighter needs to be with his power to be considered a "murderous puncher".

If you look at Duran's record at lightweight, around 80% of his stoppage wins came after 10 rounds. Lets not forget Duran was a very aggressive machine at lightweight, especially during the early-middle part of his reign.

He was hitting opponents often and it took him a while to beat Buchanan, which was a low blow at the end of the 13th round. His rematch against De Jesus was a round by round wear down contested during very high tempratures In Panama City. Duran finally caught up with Dejesus, nailing him with a two fisted barrage in the centre of the ring, round 11. Thats just two examples.

It would be extremely dumb to say Duran couldn't hit, because some of his stoppages were brutal. But his power was not effective when his opponents were fresh, physically and mentally. I'll compare two other fighters from different divisions who hit much harder than Duran. Hearns at welterweight, and Tyson at heavyweight.

Regarding Duran against Whitaker at lightweight. I would pick Whitaker. As good as Duran's defense was, he was not as defensively minded as Whitaker.

Whitaker's style was totally different to Duran's. Whitaker's probably one of the best balanced fighters in boxing history when it comes to offense and defense.

And ring generalship would be vital attribute in terms of Whitaker pulling out a decision. When any tough moments arose, Whitaker had the ability to adjust, thus make things easier for himself and get back on top.

Duran's intelligence cannot be questioned either. Duran was a very efficient hunter, and knew how to cut off the ring. He would pressure Whitaker better than anyone else ever done, Nelson and Chavez included. But Whitaker was extremely good at fighting on the backfoot. His spearing jabs while backing up would rack up points.

I go round in circles in my mind about how this fight would pan out. And it keeps coming back to Whitaker being able to hit Duran more than the otherway around. Whitaker has the intelligence and skill to offset Duran's aggression. For Duran to win this fight, he would need to KO Whitaker, and that means wearing Whitaker down over the course of the fight, and I'm afriad he wouldn't be able to hit Whitaker regularly enough to get the stoppage.

Whitaker by 3-4 points.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

Leonard was a super star and an all time great who was definately one of the best. Admit that rooster, like we all know that you want to, and let's put this thread to rest.

Relieve yourself of this sugary burden. you know you want to concede and be accepted. The first step to recovery is identifying the problem

you have to admit he looks plain fooish the way he exalts leonard off the performance in New Orleans. He acts like Ray destroyed Duran physically. Personally, I thought he did most of the harm with his showboating and taunting than with his fists. How does that make Leonard great?? This man is clearly not thinking straight.

Thomas Hearns at his peak trounced Roberto. leonard never did.

And these excuses of his dropping down from his brief stint at 154 slowing him down is one of the most absured statements you'd expect from a nuthugger.

You can say he's got skills, that he was a top fighter, etc. but if anyone deserves to be best of the last 30 years it's Norris and even I wouldn't rank him that highly. My choice would be Roy Jones as Cuchulain hinted at.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by redrooster

you have to admit he looks plain fooish the way he exalts leonard off the performance in New Orleans. He acts like Ray destroyed Duran physically. Personally, I thought he did most of the harm with his showboating and taunting than with his fists. How does that make Leonard great?? This man is clearly not thinking straight.

Thomas Hearns at his peak trounced Roberto. leonard never did.

And these excuses of his dropping down from his brief stint at 154 slowing him down is one of the most absured statements you'd expect from a nuthugger.

You can say he's got skills, that he was a top fighter, etc. but if anyone deserves to be best of the last 30 years it's Norris and even I wouldn't rank him that highly. My choice would be Roy Jones as Cuchulain hinted at.

Roy Jones is a reasonable pick, but definately not Terry Norris. A peak prime Leonard would KTFO of Terry Norris.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

Roy Jones is a reasonable pick, but definately not Terry Norris. A peak prime Leonard would KTFO of Terry Norris.

Now all you have to do is prove it.

you can't. the only thing we have to compare the two is the actual contest and in case you hadn't noticed, Norris didn't exactly "just scrape by" in the manner that Ray was known for.

"Peak prime Leonard"

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by redrooster

Now all you have to do is prove it.

you can't. the only thing we have to compare the two is the actual contest and in case you hadn't noticed, Norris didn't exactly "just scrape by" in the manner that Ray was known for.

"Peak prime Leonard"

Simon Brown did blast norris and he's a natural welterweight. This was a peak norris too.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

Simon Brown did blast norris and he's a natural welterweight. This was a peak norris too.

And a past peak Brown.

[brownpimp88]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

And a past peak Brown.

Speaking of simon brown, shouldnt he be in the HOF. The man was a former linear champ and he beat norris at 154. He therefore accomplished more than carlos palomino.

[redrooster]

How come no one ever mentions the Norris-Brown rematch as if it didn't matter? I think people begrudge Norris because of how good he was.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

Speaking of simon brown, shouldnt he be in the HOF. The man was a former linear champ and he beat norris at 154. He therefore accomplished more than carlos palomino.

I think guys like Brown and Palomino are the type (calibre) of fighters who shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Sure they were excellent fighters of their time, but if you include them, you have to induct a good 100 more fighters that are not inducted that achieved as much as they did.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by brownpimp88

Simon Brown did blast norris and he's a natural welterweight. This was a peak norris too.

You're right Pimp. Lets not forget how easily Norris defeated him in the rematch. He was well prepared and whipped Brown as easily as he did Leonard, Mugabi, Leonard, and Taylor.