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Old 12-24-2009, 12:26 PM   #16
bodhi
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
140-190Lbs. is a about a 35% jump.

160-225. is about a 40% jump.

So, what were you saying?
There are diminishing returns the higher you get in weight. 20 pounds aren't as much above 160 punds than under 160 pound. Know what I mean.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Well Langford wasn't in form at 200, he was out of shape. I believe he was in shape at around 180. So he's gained around 35lbs in his career, less than Roy Jones (still in fighting shape at HW), around the same as Duran (in good shape at 160), slightly more than Mickey Walker. Not that extraordinary given he started boxing as a teen. What is extraordinary are the ATG's he continued to reap as he stepped up.
whenever I think of the spirit of a fighter, i think of Sam. he had the greatest line i ever heard. when he was dicovered by laney blind and broke in the ghetto they set up a fund for him. when he was visited a year later, he said t5his, 'I got a geetar, and a bottle of gin and money in my pocket for Christmas dinner.No millionaire in the world got more than that and anyway, they can't use more. I fought maybe three, four hundred fightsand every one was a pleasure." That is a fighter! Afraid of noone, asking no quarter and giving no quarter. RIP Sam and Merry Christmas to all on ESB!
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Originally Posted by bodhi View Post
There are diminishing returns the higher you get in weight. 20 pounds aren't as much above 160 punds than under 160 pound. Know what I mean.
Yep.

Although I think something similar applies at very low weighs.

Bantam to super feather is nice and easy too.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Teenager? He was like 20.
Wrong.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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There are diminishing returns the higher you get in weight. 20 pounds aren't as much above 160 punds than under 160 pound. Know what I mean.

OMG, are you serious? I was talking about a % of bodyweight increase... not the actual weight increase.

40% is 40% no matter if the fighter weighs 105Lbs. or 250Lbs. Are you suggesting that a 250Lb. fighter can handle a 40% increase better than a 105Lb. fighter?

All I was pointing out was that 160-225 is a 40% increase and 140-190 is a 35% increase. This means that the 160-225 jump is more... not because 65Lbs is more than 50Lbs, but because 40% is larger than 35%. Get it? I hope so lol

It's really not a big deal anyway. Langford was a great fighter. I was just using Toney as an example of a fighter who has done somewhat similar things in terms of performing well in several weight classes.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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No Langford was 17 and Gans was 29.....Langford would of won the Lightweight title but didnt due to coming in at 136lb just a pound over the limt.
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Wrong.
Well.. his birthdate is said to be March 4, 1883. He fought Joe Gans on December 8, 1903. The would make him 20, wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
Anyway, where are we going with this?

Langford did well from WW-HW... what's the point? Out with it damnit!!! lol
I know all about his legacy and how great he was. I'm just wondering how a man, who was already or nearly full grown, was able to pack on 60 pounds of natural body weight over his career while staying in great shape, especially in those times.

The same with the likes of Mickey Walker. How was it done? I doubt all of it had to do with weights, since they were frowned upon back in the day.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
OMG, are you serious? I was talking about a % of bodyweight increase... not the actual weight increase.

40% is 40% no matter if the fighter weighs 105Lbs. or 250Lbs. Are you suggesting that a 250Lb. fighter can handle a 40% increase better than a 105Lb. fighter?

All I was pointing out was that 160-225 is a 40% increase and 140-190 is a 35% increase. This means that the 160-225 jump is more... not because 65Lbs is more than 50Lbs, but because 40% is larger than 35%. Get it? I hope so lol

It's really not a big deal anyway. Langford was a great fighter. I was just using Toney as an example of a fighter who has done somewhat similar things in terms of performing well in several weight classes.
Is this a different Hookie to the one who posted on BI?
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Originally Posted by boxerca View Post
Well.. his birthdate is said to be March 4, 1883. He fought Joe Gans on December 8, 1903. The would make him 20, wouldn't it?


I know all about his legacy and how great he was. I'm just wondering how a man, who was already or nearly full grown, was able to pack on 60 pounds of natural body weight over his career while staying in great shape, especially in those times.

The same with the likes of Mickey Walker. How was it done? I doubt all of it had to do with weights, since they were frowned upon back in the day.
Nope he was 17. Read it in the book written about him.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

What you have to factor in with fighters of Langford's era is that some of them were basicaly malnourished teenagers when they started their boxing careers.

They would have gained significant body mass just by adopting normal meals.

Then you factor in the way that a man naturaly fills out between his teenage years and mid 20s.

Then you put him on a high calorie diet and a 14 hour a day training regime.

Then he starts to become overweight later in his career.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Nope he was 17. Read it in the book written about him.
Then the information that I found was incorrect. I'll believe it now, though. You're the third person to admit it and you've read it in a book about him.

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What you have to factor in with fighters of Langford's era is that some of them were basicaly malnourished teenagers when they started their boxing careers.

They would have gained significant body mass just by adopting normal meals.

Then you factor in the way that a man naturaly fills out between his teenage years and mid 20s.

Then you put him on a high calorie diet and a 14 hour a day training regime.

Then he starts to become overweight later in his career.
Great answer. Thanks.

But the thing with Langford is that he was only 5'6 and weighed around 140, at one point. That's around the average weight for a person of that height. Then he started to weigh in at around 200. 5'6 and 200 pounds is very odd but interesting.

I would ask if anyone had his training routine, but it seems to be lost in history.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

No Problem. Sam trained alot. But he had a passion for cigars and smoked one after every fight virtually. He also loved clothes.

He was quite the chracater and lived life in the fast lane. Credit to Clay Moyle for doing a excellent book on Langford. Am sure it took many years to find so much information out about him.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:07 PM   #27
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Originally Posted by boxerca View Post
Great answer. Thanks.

But the thing with Langford is that he was only 5'6 and weighed around 140, at one point. That's around the average weight for a person of that height. Then he started to weigh in at around 200. 5'6 and 200 pounds is very odd but interesting.
Langfords tale of the tape is quite telling.

He had a 42" chest and a 17" neck. Some of his dimensions would have looked good on a superheavyweight. He was not so much small as a stunted Hercules. If you look at a picture of him next to Joe Louis, he is much shorter but looks bigger.

I think that at 140 he was probably still under-nourished to some extent or still suffering the effects of having been under-nourished. I think that he was conditioned at 185 lbs but overweight above that.

Of course 185 lbs goes a long way on a man of 5' 6'' as the tale of the tape shows.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Originally Posted by Frazier Hook View Post
No Problem. Sam trained alot. But he had a passion for cigars and smoked one after every fight virtually. He also loved clothes.

He was quite the chracater and lived life in the fast lane. Credit to Clay Moyle for doing a excellent book on Langford. Am sure it took many years to find so much information out about him.
I actually wanna read that book. I've heard good reviews and I want a more in-depth look at Langford's life.

Does it also contain a lot of photos?
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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I actually wanna read that book. I've heard good reviews and I want a more in-depth look at Langford's life.

Does it also contain a lot of photos?
Loads of great RARE photos in the book. It's a real must buy. Just a grest read and when you start it you cant put it down.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:13 PM   #30
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Default Re: How did Sam Langford..

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Langfords tale of the tape is quite telling.

He had a 42" chest and a 17" neck. Some of his dimensions would have looked good on a superheavyweight. He was not so much small as a stunted Hercules. If you look at a picture of him next to Joe Louis, he is much shorter but looks bigger.

I think that at 140 he was probably still under-nourished to some extent or still suffering the effects of having been under-nourished. I think that he was conditioned at 185 lbs but overweight above that.

Of course 185 lbs goes a long way on a man of 5' 6'' as the tale of the tape shows.
Yeah, Langford was something else. His body size allowed him to be a great puncher.

I've seen that picture of him with Louis. He looks to be wider and actually taller then he's listed (maybe I just think that).

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Originally Posted by Frazier Hook View Post
Loads of great RARE photos in the book. It's a real must buy. Just a grest read and when you start it you cant put it down.
Then I definitely have to get around to reading that. Thanks!
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