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Old 12-24-2009, 06:59 PM   #1
Dempsey1238
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Default The Gene Tunney challenge.

Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

We're basically looking for punchers, here.

I think Foreman or Tyson could've done it. I see them being able to knock out Matthews, Charles and Walcott. The question for them is how long it would take.

The big problem is Marciano, though. He's got a solid chin and, even though I could see Foreman or Tyson being able to knock him out, he would probably take a while longer to knock out than the other three.

But if anyone's gonna get it done, I would side with either of those two.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.
I am not sure any fighter could have actually pulled this off, including Dempsey. However, head to head, the Klitschko brothers because of their size, skill and fitness would have a shot.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

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Originally Posted by boxerca View Post
We're basically looking for punchers, here.

I think Foreman or Tyson could've done it. I see them being able to knock out Matthews, Charles and Walcott. The question for them is how long it would take.

The big problem is Marciano, though. He's got a solid chin and, even though I could see Foreman or Tyson being able to knock him out, he would probably take a while longer to knock out than the other three.

But if anyone's gonna get it done, I would side with either of those two.

Dont think Foreman or Tyson could do it.

I watch Foreman vs the 5, and though Foreman ko the first 3 guys in a breeze, the 4th and 5th guys gave Foreman hell. Seeing this footage at the time and rember what Tunney said, Had Marciano been the last guy, vs Foreman, Foreman was not going to leave the Ring on his own free will.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

the only answer i can offer is the disciple of dempsey... a prime version of tyson.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

I think we're taking some truly glowing, gushing praise a bit too seriously here.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I think we're taking some truly glowing, gushing praise a bit too seriously here.

For Tyson just walking though Matthews, Walcott, Charles and Marciano in 1 round each? Or for the said fighters beating Tyson?
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

Tunney was talking nonsense, obviously.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
Tunney was talking nonsense, obviously.

Sure about that?? He relly belive that Dempsey would smash though Charles, Walcott and Marciano in less than ten rounds.

I think Tunney belive in his own words. I pretty sure 1960's Ali would belive he could do it.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

edit

Last edited by Bodysnatcher; 02-24-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

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Gene's comments are valid, imho.

I think Gene and Jack handle anyone until Liston.

Handle? Okay. Knock them all out in one night in under ten rounds of boxing? A solid contender and three HOFers? That's pure nonsense, man. Tunney couldn't have believed that, I don't think. He was a smart man. I think he was just showing his respect through exaggeration there.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

Coming from '52, I will buy Eugene Tunney's word / statement......... After all, Rocco Marciano was a newly crowned champion in Sept. of that year......

However, by the end of the decade, I cannot buy, nor do I believe Tunney's interview from 1952 holds much water.......

I can picture Jack Dempsey from 1919 beating the likes of "Charles, Walcott and Archie Moore" in a time machine..... But I cannot see Dempsey beating Marciano in a time machine...... Dempsey and Marciano were a lot alike in terms of fighting, but Marciano had better training and instructions that enabled him to be more polished and well-rounded than Jack Dempsey, who I found to be crude and wild at times......

MR.BILL
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Coming from '52, I will buy Eugene Tunney's word / statement......... After all, Rocco Marciano was a newly crowned champion in Sept. of that year......

However, by the end of the decade, I cannot buy, nor do I believe Tunney's interview from 1952 holds much water.......

I can picture Jack Dempsey from 1919 beating the likes of "Charles, Walcott and Archie Moore" in a time machine..... But I cannot see Dempsey beating Marciano in a time machine...... Dempsey and Marciano were a lot alike in terms of fighting, but Marciano had better training and instructions that enabled him to be more polished and well-rounded than Jack Dempsey, who I found to be crude and wild at times......

MR.BILL
Although I still think it was just respectfully great exaggeration, maybe because I'm viewing the statement with the context of history and not from the perspective of someone in 1952 and he really was serious...but maybe it was still something he just started blurting out. I think we've all blurted out a big statement like that and then immediately realized it didn't hold up to realistic critical thinking.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:42 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.
I love dempsey, but i dont see him being able to do all that..he went many rounds with guys like [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and while i think dempsey would have beaten all the guys listed..doing it in one night is a bit crazy...as for who could have done..it guess the best chance would have been big punchers who could start fast..young foreman..tyson..lewis...wlad...also those guys would have had a good size advantage and where fast starters...still...it seems like a hard task to imagine.

I think Tunney was being a bit too kind to my hero...and yes, he references the dempsey that fought willard..but i dont think the was that off his game by the time he fought brennan.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Gene Tunney challenge.

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
..... But I cannot see Dempsey beating Marciano in a time machine...... Dempsey and Marciano were a lot alike in terms of fighting, but Marciano had better training and instructions that enabled him to be more polished and well-rounded than Jack Dempsey, who I found to be crude and wild at times......

MR.BILL

MrBill...the only time dempsey had ever looked wild or crude to me is when he had already hurt willard..and knew that willard had no chance to hurt him..hence he was throwing very strong punches known as "swings" dempsey's defense was very good...watch the first mintue 1:40 of willard dempsey..his movement around the ring..his walking away from jabs..his slips..his fast punches...his dempsey roll that drops willard...marciano may have one....and i think its crazy to say that dempsey takes him out in one...but i think dempsey beats the Rock...straight up..and dempsey was definitly more polished.
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