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Old 12-25-2009, 10:08 PM   #1
Ted Stickles
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Default Louis vs Liston

Id have no hesitation with going with Louis ,what do you guys think.......
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

I would favor Louis, but with Liston's power, I wouldn't feel sure about it. Joe's a more precise puncher, and he's much faster. But I think Sonny hit harder, and his jab would make it very hard for Louis to set up his punches.
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Old 12-26-2009, 02:30 AM   #3
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Louis KO 7 Liston
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

I don't agree that Liston hit as hard as Louis, so let's get that out of the way first.

What Liston definitely did do was hit hard enough to stop Louis. Joe, despite being one of my favourite fighters, was a smallish Heavy in weight (in his prime) around the late 190's. Louis did prove however he had the force of a big man, fighting with big guys like Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera, as well as dealing with speedier boxers like Billy Conn.

Liston also has that ramrod, hurtful jab, which may keep Louis out of range to get his sharp composite punches off, that, regardless of Listons toughness, will hurt him and get him out of there if he takes too many.

I see Louis get badly hurt around the sixth round, and as Liston shuffles in to put him away, it's 'The Brown Bomber' who comes off better in the short, furious exchange; better punching form, faster hands. Liston famously fought through broken jaws and dealt with a speedster like Patterson in destructive fashion twice, but I wouldn't hesitate to say Louis would demolish Patterson like Johnannson and Liston did.

Louis K.O around the 6th round. I feel that whilst tagged a few times with some precise shots, Liston would probably look to be ahead around the time of the stoppage. I just see Louis' measured approach and Listons jab will stop Louis from 'doing his thing' until Liston boars in after hurting him.

This is a tough matchup for a few reasons however; personally I feel Liston would be just about the best Heavyweight Louis ever faced. Whilst not all out big as Carnera, and probably a fraction shorter than Louis, he would outweigh the best Joe Louis by quite a few lbs. Liston was notoriously strong as well, and a far better fighter than Max Baer IMO.

Whilst Louis famously took rounds of punishment from Marciano, he was an older man with increased girth. I'm not certain that Prime Louis would've stood up to such a beating to be perfectly honest. I also feel he would have more than enough in him to beat Marciano, Prime for prime, and I feel he would for Liston too.

Recently been watching him, the Bethea fight and both Patterson encounters, although I have to remind myself Liston was not always an out-and-out destroyer. I tend to think that Joe Louis would win purely because he was better.

Fair?
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Louis was the best counter power puncher ever..I think Louis chops Sonny up and out..KO by 8
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

I like Louis at this very moment. Liston's not a mover (Joe's a bit of a shuffler) and Louis has way faster hands (many don't realise he has absolute top shelf handspeed) and punches very very short and direct. It boils down to whether Liston can overpower him early. More times than not i don't think he can.

*Disclaimer* Subject to change.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
I don't agree that Liston hit as hard as Louis, so let's get that out of the way first.

What Liston definitely did do was hit hard enough to stop Louis. Joe, despite being one of my favourite fighters, was a smallish Heavy in weight (in his prime) around the late 190's. Louis did prove however he had the force of a big man, fighting with big guys like Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera, as well as dealing with speedier boxers like Billy Conn.

Liston also has that ramrod, hurtful jab, which may keep Louis out of range to get his sharp composite punches off, that, regardless of Listons toughness, will hurt him and get him out of there if he takes too many.

I see Louis get badly hurt around the sixth round, and as Liston shuffles in to put him away, it's 'The Brown Bomber' who comes off better in the short, furious exchange; better punching form, faster hands. Liston famously fought through broken jaws and dealt with a speedster like Patterson in destructive fashion twice, but I wouldn't hesitate to say Louis would demolish Patterson like Johnannson and Liston did.

Louis K.O around the 6th round. I feel that whilst tagged a few times with some precise shots, Liston would probably look to be ahead around the time of the stoppage. I just see Louis' measured approach and Listons jab will stop Louis from 'doing his thing' until Liston boars in after hurting him.

This is a tough matchup for a few reasons however; personally I feel Liston would be just about the best Heavyweight Louis ever faced. Whilst not all out big as Carnera, and probably a fraction shorter than Louis, he would outweigh the best Joe Louis by quite a few lbs. Liston was notoriously strong as well, and a far better fighter than Max Baer IMO.

Whilst Louis famously took rounds of punishment from Marciano, he was an older man with increased girth. I'm not certain that Prime Louis would've stood up to such a beating to be perfectly honest. I also feel he would have more than enough in him to beat Marciano, Prime for prime, and I feel he would for Liston too.

Recently been watching him, the Bethea fight and both Patterson encounters, although I have to remind myself Liston was not always an out-and-out destroyer. I tend to think that Joe Louis would win purely because he was better.

Fair?
Fair and IMO just about accurate
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Joe's defensive skills and head movement were badly underrated. He'd slip Sonny's jab on the way in, and hammer away with short combinations before Liston would have a chance to bring his strength to bear.

Psychologically, Liston would be at a serious disadvantage here. He was afraid of Louis when Joe was an old man. Facing a prime Louis, he'd be shitting bricks like Max Baer did, and likely fold up in similar fashion when he discovered his bombs were no more effective than Maxie's.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

I think Sonny would beat Louis due to physical and stylistic advantages. Louis is one of my favorite fighters, and it's hard for me to say, but after all of the footage I analyzed combined with the testimony of fighters who faced him, I've come to the conclusion that Louis is overated H2H, especially by his fans. I do think however that a fight between Louis and 70's Foreman would be a toss up.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Stickles View Post
Id have no hesitation with going with Louis ,what do you guys think.......
Louis was Liston's idol. Louis by ko after breaking Sonny down.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Louis by late round stoppage. I think it would be a very exciting bout right up until the end.

Louis stood 6'2" and had a 76" reach. He weighed between 197 and 218 Lbs. in HW World Title fights spanning from 1937-1950.

Liston stood just under 6'1" and had an 84" reach. He weighed between 213 and 218Lbs. in HW World Title fights spanning from 1962-1965.

Both men had excellent jabs and power. Louis was more accurate and had quicker hands, both were good finishers. Liston had the better chin but Louis was only stopped twice in 69 fights. Liston was stopped 3 times in 54 fights.

Louis fought the following World Champs... Primo Carnera (KO6), Max Baer (KO4), Max Schmeling (LKOby12 and KO1), Jack Sharkey (KO6), Jimmy Braddock (KO3), John Henry Lewis (KO1), Billy Conn (KO13 and KO), Jersey Joe Walcott (W15 and KO13), Ezzard Charles (L15), and Rocky Marciano (LKOby). He also fought Hall of Famer Jimmy Bivins (W10). He went 11-3 (9) vs. these men.

Liston fought World Champs Floyd Patterson (KO1 x2) and Muhammad Ali (LKOby7 and LKOby1). He fought good fighters like Cleveland Williams (KO3 and KO2), Zora Foley (KO3), and Eddie Machen (W12). He also fought notable fighters like Johnny Summerlin (W8 x2), Marty Marshall (L8, KO6, and W10), Mike DeJohn (KO6), Nino Valdes (KO3), Roy Harris (KO1), Leotis Martin (LKOby9), and Chuck Wepner (KO10). He went 14-4 (10) vs. these men but overall Louis had the better resume.

I think Liston would look good in the first couple of rounds but Louis would gain control by round 3. Louis would use his speed to land his punches and get out of the way before Liston could do much in return. I do think Liston would rock Louis a few times but overall Louis would be ahead comfortably prior to the stoppage.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

I don't think there's much of a size difference.

Liston weighed 205 pounds here:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZkFNdPkdI[/ame]


Louis at 208:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSt7ziz_XWQ[/ame]


Liston did have the reach advantage and he usually weighed around 5-10 pounds more than Louis (who was at his best at around 205). Not enough that I'd say he had a significant physical advantage over Louis though.
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Old 12-26-2009, 01:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

Louis was not only a great puncher but his ring instincts were terrific

Last edited by Bummy Davis; 12-26-2009 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 12-26-2009, 02:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

I favor Joe, but I don't think it's in any way definite for either man. I do think if Liston couldn't stop him and bully him, he'd get brutalized himself.
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Old 12-26-2009, 02:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: Louis vs Liston

These 2 have so many similarties, both great great punchers, not just power but timing, countering ability, and great punchers from any range with a full arsenal of shots

Speed - Louis
Footwork - Liston
Strength - Liston
Power - Liston but close
Defense - Liston has better headwork, parrying skills imo
Combination punching - both great
Jab - Liston, not just the range he throws it better

Its a close call and would be a real war, I fancy Liston by KO
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