Louis vs Liston - Page 2

PowerPuncher · 12-26-2009, 02:18 PM

These 2 have so many similarties, both great great punchers, not just power but timing, countering ability, and great punchers from any range with a full arsenal of shots

Speed - Louis
Footwork - Liston
Strength - Liston
Power - Liston but close
Defense - Liston has better headwork, parrying skills imo
Combination punching - both great
Jab - Liston, not just the range he throws it better

Its a close call and would be a real war, I fancy Liston by KO

rm36 · 12-26-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

These 2 have so many similarties, both great great punchers, not just power but timing, countering ability, and great punchers from any range with a full arsenal of shots

Speed - Louis
Footwork - Liston
Strength - Liston
Power - Liston but close
Defense - Liston has better headwork, parrying skills imo
Combination punching - both great
Jab - Liston, not just the range he throws it better

Its a close call and would be a real war, I fancy Liston by KO

You think Sonny's combination punching is on the same level as Louis's ?

PowerPuncher · 12-26-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm36

You think Sonny's combination punching is on the same level as Louis's ?

Not as fast but he puts them together brutally well from any range

dezbeast · 12-26-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Liston did have the reach advantage and he usually weighed around 5-10 pounds more than Louis (who was at his best at around 205). Not enough that I'd say he had a significant physical advantage over Louis though.

I also factored brute strength as a physical advantage.

janitor · 12-26-2009, 04:21 PM

Louis's speed would probably be the deciding factor. They would be trying to play each other at the same game and Louis would be beating Liston to the punch.

People have speculated that Liston might hold certain advantages but for my money he really only has one advantage that is likely to be important. This is that he is better at anticipating his oponent, adapting to unexpected situations and changing tactics mid round. If Liston did win (which I do not expect) then this would surely be the reason.

PetethePrince · 12-26-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

These 2 have so many similarties, both great great punchers, not just power but timing, countering ability, and great punchers from any range with a full arsenal of shots

Speed - Louis
Footwork - Liston
Strength - Liston
Power - Liston but close
Defense - Liston has better headwork, parrying skills imo
Combination punching - both great
Jab - Liston, not just the range he throws it better

Its a close call and would be a real war, I fancy Liston by KO

Combination punching is a clear Louis nod. If you going to give Liston footwork outright clearly. Liston's footwork wasn't superior anyway. He had more footspeed, but that was due to Louis choosing to not use his footspeed. Liston has awful ring cutting skills. Jab is close too. I think Liston has the better jab but Louis jab is an ATG one.

janitor · 12-26-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

Jab is close too. I think Liston has the better jab but Louis jab is an ATG one.

You would have to factor in the point that Louis's jab was faster if nothing else.

In factors like power and strength you can't really give a reliable answer without having fought both guys.

PetethePrince · 12-26-2009, 04:35 PM

This isn't the best of matchups for Louis. Louis has the faster hands, but could be open for any counter right. Honestly, though, Liston isn't clever enough to catch this. Louis limited footspeed due to conserving energy would cost him in a fight against Liston. Liston has the power, strength, and reach. Liston can box, and brawl. Louis wants to box, but with Liston's reach and jab that's not going to be easy. Liston slips a jab better than Louis does. Louis a little upright and doesn't have quite as much head-movement as he should. Louis, though, would use his combination punching. Great accuracy, timing, and awesome ability at counter-punching. It's a really tough one to call for the reasons I outlined.

Due to Louis' inferior durability, my head/gut tells me to slightly favor Liston. My heart says to pick Louis. It's a 50/50 maybe 60/40 type fight for either man I guess. I lean toward Liston, I guess.

Intangibles, heart, toughness, and ring IQ go to Louis. So this could be the clearing point for him. Maybe his combination punching is more of important of an edge then has been emphasized. These factors will lead Louis a chance toward victory.

PowerPuncher · 12-26-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

Combination punching is a clear Louis nod. If you going to give Liston footwork outright clearly. Liston's footwork wasn't superior anyway. He had more footspeed, but that was due to Louis choosing to not use his footspeed. Liston has awful ring cutting skills. Jab is close too. I think Liston has the better jab but Louis jab is an ATG one.

Both put punches together well, yes Louis fired them off quicker, in terms of quality its close though and both are very effective combo throwers, maybe Louis edges this though, I dont see that being a key factor

Liston did have better footwork imo because it had better balance and he'd rotate off his feet better, his head movement was technically better too. Louis slid in quicker though.

Listons jab simply pisses on Louis's jab who didnt really have a particularly good jab neither was it as rangy, which we all know is important jab wise

Liston wouldnt need to cut off the ring in this 1 as they'd meet head on

janitor · 12-26-2009, 05:15 PM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Liston did have better footwork imo because it had better balance and he'd rotate off his feet better, his head movement was technically better too. Louis slid in quicker though.

Although he rarely used it , Louis could be verry fast on his feet and use it to evade punishment as he did against Max Baer.

Liston might just have been a good candidate for him taking his footwork out of mothballs.

Quote:

Listons jab simply pisses on Louis's jab who didnt really have a particularly good jab neither was it as rangy, which we all know is important jab wise

The superior speed of Louis's jab might be critical if they get into a jabbing contest.

Quote:

Liston wouldnt need to cut off the ring in this 1 as they'd meet head on

I actualy wonder if they would.

Both these men preffered to keep their oponent walking towards them if they could and clobber him coming in.

I guess they can't both have it that way.

PetethePrince · 12-26-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Both put punches together well, yes Louis fired them off quicker, in terms of quality its close though and both are very effective combo throwers, maybe Louis edges this though, I dont see that being a key factor

Louis has the speed, accuracy, and timing that are significantly better than Liston's combination punching, no doubt. Besides Liston with that 84 inch reach just wasn't that fast. To me, his combination punching is slower than even 70's Foreman. But his jab, was quicker than Foreman's. He was a good fighter for a man with such a long reach but he did not put combos anywhere near as good as Joe Louis did.

If Louis is to win... you're damn straight it's a key factor.

Quote:

Liston did have better footwork imo because it had better balance and he'd rotate off his feet better, his head movement was technically better too. Louis slid in quicker though.

I can accept this.

Quote:

Listons jab simply pisses on Louis's jab who didnt really have a particularly good jab neither was it as rangy, which we all know is important jab wise

Liston wouldnt need to cut off the ring in this 1 as they'd meet head on

If Liston's jab pisses on Louis' but his combination is very close. Then you sir, need to re-evaluate your standards and analysis. That's all I can say. Liston has the better jab, but Louis has a very good hard fast one. It's not particularly flashy, but very balanced. But Louis' combination punching is much much better than Liston's. I think any non-biased person would admit this. Even the biggest of Liston fans.

PetethePrince · 12-26-2009, 05:30 PM

I'm changing my vote to a Louis decision.

It's going to be a very technical boxing match. Lots of firepower, but it will be a technical fight from the mid to outside I think. If Liston thought Ali could punch wait till he feels Joe's power. Louis smarts, and mental toughness will have him take the fight over around round 5. I see Liston boxing very well and winning most of the early rounds. But Joe starts to shift the fight, as his superior stamina and mind seem clear. Liston never went 15 rounds.

Louis 9-5-1 or a late TKO.

12-26-2009, 02:18 PM	#16
PowerPuncher ESB Junkie East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,729 vCash: 1000	Re: Louis vs Liston These 2 have so many similarties, both great great punchers, not just power but timing, countering ability, and great punchers from any range with a full arsenal of shots Speed - Louis Footwork - Liston Strength - Liston Power - Liston but close Defense - Liston has better headwork, parrying skills imo Combination punching - both great Jab - Liston, not just the range he throws it better Its a close call and would be a real war, I fancy Liston by KO
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12-26-2009, 04:21 PM	#20
janitor P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 19,044 vCash: 1000	Re: Louis vs Liston Louis's speed would probably be the deciding factor. They would be trying to play each other at the same game and Louis would be beating Liston to the punch. People have speculated that Liston might hold certain advantages but for my money he really only has one advantage that is likely to be important. This is that he is better at anticipating his oponent, adapting to unexpected situations and changing tactics mid round. If Liston did win (which I do not expect) then this would surely be the reason.
Top

12-26-2009, 04:35 PM	#23
PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded East Side VIP Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 15,227 vCash: 1200	Re: Louis vs Liston This isn't the best of matchups for Louis. Louis has the faster hands, but could be open for any counter right. Honestly, though, Liston isn't clever enough to catch this. Louis limited footspeed due to conserving energy would cost him in a fight against Liston. Liston has the power, strength, and reach. Liston can box, and brawl. Louis wants to box, but with Liston's reach and jab that's not going to be easy. Liston slips a jab better than Louis does. Louis a little upright and doesn't have quite as much head-movement as he should. Louis, though, would use his combination punching. Great accuracy, timing, and awesome ability at counter-punching. It's a really tough one to call for the reasons I outlined. Due to Louis' inferior durability, my head/gut tells me to slightly favor Liston. My heart says to pick Louis. It's a 50/50 maybe 60/40 type fight for either man I guess. I lean toward Liston, I guess. Intangibles, heart, toughness, and ring IQ go to Louis. So this could be the clearing point for him. Maybe his combination punching is more of important of an edge then has been emphasized. These factors will lead Louis a chance toward victory.
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12-26-2009, 05:30 PM	#27
PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded East Side VIP Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 15,227 vCash: 1200	Re: Louis vs Liston I'm changing my vote to a Louis decision. It's going to be a very technical boxing match. Lots of firepower, but it will be a technical fight from the mid to outside I think. If Liston thought Ali could punch wait till he feels Joe's power. Louis smarts, and mental toughness will have him take the fight over around round 5. I see Liston boxing very well and winning most of the early rounds. But Joe starts to shift the fight, as his superior stamina and mind seem clear. Liston never went 15 rounds. Louis 9-5-1 or a late TKO.
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