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Old 09-30-2007, 07:47 AM   #1
pablogad
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Default Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

One thing that boxing has shown me over the lifetime that I've followed it is that people have very different perspectives on how a fight has played out. For some of us this is a genuine difference of perspective - that is were're looking at and evaluating different aspects of the fight game more than others e.g. weight and volume of punches over ring generalship. Worst still there are a large number of us who would disparage a fighter's lifetime achievements and committment to the sport of boxing simply because he has lost a solitary fight in a hitherto distinguished career. This saddens me immensely.

What happened in the early hours of this morning or evening, depending on where you live, is that two unbeaten fighters locked horns and Taylor was knocked out in dramatic fashion. Prior to the knockout, Taylor was winning hands down due to his own endeavour and Pavlik's 10 seconds of macho bravado, which in round 2 incidentally nearly cost him the fight. He was out on his feet for the next round and a half, in my humble opinion, before his offensive regained its potency.

The fact that Pavlik eventually overpowered and knocked out Taylor is not surprising; his record and last win over Miranda speak for themselves. What is significant about this fight, for me, is that Taylor could not be bothered to answer his own personal questions about his own abilities and desire for this sport. Those of you who blame Manny Steward for this loss have no respect for a hall of fame trainer of boxing champions. His advice was spot on if Taylor was to have any chance of overcoming Pavlik.

In the preceding fight against Berto and Estrada, Berto stood toe to toe with Estrada and employed boxing smarts, grit and determination to temper Estrada's plan to overpower him. This allowed him to eventually impose his fight plan and secure the win.

Ironically this was the blueprint for Taylor, which he followed for all but two rounds; he could not close out the show primarily because of Pavlik's will to succeed, and sadly because of his own inability or desire to grit it out and get the job done. Without any disrespect to Pavlik, Taylor first and foremost lost to himself and has been doing so for quite sometime now. He definately has self-confidence issues and excudes an "I can't be bothered attitude." And please - I'm not knocking a man when he's down. I already covered this lack of desire in a pre fight post in this forum.

If there is any truth in the claim that there is a lack of synergy between Taylor and Manny, then I would guess that it centres on Taylor's unwillingness to utilise his natural gifts and draw upon his inner reserves. I sincerely hope that Taylor re-dedicates himself to at least one more fight and, win or lose, allows his hitherto unseen inner light to shine. And if he's going to change trainer - which is frankly unnecessary - all roads lead to the Mayweathers.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

Spot on mate. Taylor was a totally different fighter at the start of the 3rd and you could tell he just couldnt be ****d after that.

I have also seen referee's who would have called a halt to the action in the 2nd and no-one could have really argued.

Your points on the Berto fight are spot on too, I've been a fan of berto since I first seen him some 18 months or so ago (dont get much televised Berto action here in Scotland but I catch what I can and download the rest)

Cracking post
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrminator
Spot on mate. Taylor was a totally different fighter at the start of the 3rd and you could tell he just couldnt be ****d after that.

I have also seen referee's who would have called a halt to the action in the 2nd and no-one could have really argued.

Your points on the Berto fight are spot on too, I've been a fan of berto since I first seen him some 18 months or so ago (dont get much televised Berto action here in Scotland but I catch what I can and download the rest)

Cracking post
So are you guys saying taylor threw the fight now,or just could not be ****d,thats very disrespecful to both of them id say ,jesus just get over it,he lost he will be back,he may if he fights him again win.

Also if you rewatch his 2nd round knock down,he got right back up,and was still in control,im sorry only a dumb ref would have stopped that.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

The author of this thread has a point no doubt...but Taylor did show he had some serious ability in this opening rounds... a little more desire in the middle stages and he may well have edged it as i thought he would have..no one should take anything from Pavlik though he is one tough son of a gun...the JC Kessler winner whoops him though
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe33
So are you guys saying taylor threw the fight now,or just could not be ****d,thats very disrespecful to both of them id say ,jesus just get over it,he lost he will be back,he may if he fights him again win.

Also if you rewatch his 2nd round knock down,he got right back up,and was still in control,im sorry only a dumb ref would have stopped that.

Nothing to get over mate, I was rooting for Pav. Im just being objective and Taylor imo was clearly a different fighter from the beginning of the 3rd. It was like chalk and cheese.

Dunno why he clamed up, lack of confidence? bad bad advice from his team?...who knows? but he might have had Pav out of there had he kept the pressure going in the 3rd.

Pav is teak tough but has very limited skills and a good boxer technician will beat him (Winky anyone?) He'd be foolish to try and take on Calzaghe as he'd be comprehensively outboxed and outclassed imo.
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:36 AM   #6
pablogad
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

Joe33

I am not demeaning Pavlik's win over Taylor. I'm simply saying it as I see it, and all that I've seen of Taylor since he came to prominence since fighting Hopkins is a fighter who lacks a combination of grit, determination and self belief when the going gets tough. Pavlik's reponse to being knocked down in round two epitomises all of the above and some!

So with all due respect Joe 33 you'd do well to fully read this post before drawing the wrong inferences.
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:46 AM   #7
MrMagic
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

This is what I saw in short:

Taylor came out guns blazing, trying to satisfy his fans.. but had his hands way too low and caught jabs moving in, then in round two he hit Pavlik with a vicious right hand and Pavlik came up, regained his composure and even pressed the last five seconds, scarily enough.
Then they started box for a while, I guess both guys got caught up in the moment and IMHO it was a pretty damn close fight up until the knockout, and no.. there's no way Taylor would of came up from that KD.

Jermain Taylor deserves credit and anyone that calls him a fraud or a bum is a ****ing re**** and should stop watch boxing, Jermain Taylor left everything in there last night.
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

I've never been a JT fan so I'm not at all upset about his loss last night, But what's fair is fair; ANY OTHER REFEREE IN BOXING WOULD HAVE STOPPED IT IN THE SECOND ROUND WITHOUT ARGUMENT! THAT FIGHT WAS OVER AND THE REF TOOK UNNECESSARY (is that spelled right?) CHANCES WITH PAVLIK'S LIFE. KUDOS TO PAVLIK FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ONE OF THOSE CHANCES TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION AND TURN THE FIGHT AROUND, BUT IN MY BOOK (AND I'M SURE MINE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE) HE LOST THAT FIGHT. Whatever happened to standing 8 counts? Pavlik and JT each could have made good use of them!!! Congratulations Pavlik for exposing JT's chin and replacing him with a more gutsy Champion!!!
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Taylor Vs Pavlik - what fight were you watching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakyfelix
I've never been a JT fan so I'm not at all upset about his loss last night, But what's fair is fair; ANY OTHER REFEREE IN BOXING WOULD HAVE STOPPED IT IN THE SECOND ROUND WITHOUT ARGUMENT! THAT FIGHT WAS OVER AND THE REF TOOK UNNECESSARY (is that spelled right?) CHANCES WITH PAVLIK'S LIFE. KUDOS TO PAVLIK FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ONE OF THOSE CHANCES TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION AND TURN THE FIGHT AROUND, BUT IN MY BOOK (AND I'M SURE MINE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE) HE LOST THAT FIGHT. Whatever happened to standing 8 counts? Pavlik and JT each could have mad good use of them!!! Congratulations Pavlik for exposing JT's chin and replacing him with a more gutsy Champion!!!


Dude... you can't be serious, can you? Pavlik got cute, stuck his mug out and paid for it. Was he hurt?... yes, but not badly. Not even close to badly. He hung on for the next minute and actually was pressing the action in the last 10 seconds of that round! He was fully recoverd by round 3 and was clearly the aggressor for the entire fight. A 2nd round stoppage would have been a poor one.
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