Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-30-2007, 07:42 AM   #1
Nawfal
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 837
vCash: 1000
Default is pavlik undisputed?

?
Nawfal is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-30-2007, 07:47 AM   #2
Carlos Primera
Martinez is a badman
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Obama can keep the change
Posts: 3,563
vCash: 75
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

some people consider a fighter 'undisputed' when he holds all the paper titles. frankly speaking thats bull shit. pavlik is undisputed for beating the man who beat the man. it means his claim to being champion is undisputable.
Carlos Primera is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 07:49 AM   #3
Tom_Tocca
The Provider
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

yes, absolutley - though, he has some challenges ahead of him at 160...
Tom_Tocca is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 07:50 AM   #4
bumdujour
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: you´re not alive unless you´re almost dying!!
Posts: 1,496
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

well, he is the man who beat the man i hopkins, who was the true middleweight champ.

so i guess he has the call now.
bumdujour is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 07:52 AM   #5
Carlos Primera
Martinez is a badman
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Obama can keep the change
Posts: 3,563
vCash: 75
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
Well, i think Winky, Abraham and Sturm would dispute his claim to be the best fighter at 160. So, if you go by that no. He´s linear and ring mag champ but imo not undisputed.
does'nt matter if there are better fighters than him, fact is he is the 'champion' for beating the man who beat the 'champion'. nawfal was asking if he was the 'undisputed champion' not 'undisputed the best fighter at that weight'. at this point in time he blasts through winky as well.
Carlos Primera is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:04 AM   #6
Nawfal
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 837
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

if you guys keep saying he is the man who beat the man etc.... then everyone will always remain undisputed.
Nawfal is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:07 AM   #7
liljp361
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,652
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

no question yes
liljp361 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:13 AM   #8
NBT
Mοderator of Death
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

I rate him as undisputed. Sturm is a joke of a paper champ who would get knocked out easily, Winky has faded too much. Abraham is the only one you could argue about but he has this dubious fight with Miranda which should have been stopped, when he broke his jaw and Pavlik knocked Miranda out.
NBT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:30 AM   #9
Carlos Primera
Martinez is a badman
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Obama can keep the change
Posts: 3,563
vCash: 75
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
To break down the three imo meaningful titles:

linear: the man who beat the man who ... you know.

ring mag: either you beat the champ or by winning the fight between the number #1 and #2 in the division, sometimes #1 and #3.

undisputed: you´ve beaten every, or nearly every, fighter who poses a real threat to you out there - most people think you have to unify at least 3 if not all 4 of the major belts to do so.

Pavlik is linear because he beat Taylor who beat Hopkins. Pavlik is ring mag champ because he beat Taylor who was ring mag champ. Pavlik is not undisputed because there are some dangerous fightes out there for him. Additionally he didn´t win 3 or all 3 major belts from Taylor who did so against Hopkins and so was undisputed even with "only" two belts.
i know about those categories very well, but thats just going into technicalities. the fact of the matter is pavlik is THE champion at 160, that is undisputable. undisputed simply means that you're claim to being the champion is undisputable for a variety of reasons.

take calzaghe for example. it is undisputable that he is the champ at SMW.
Carlos Primera is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:47 AM   #10
dumdane
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 99
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

He is definitely NOT undisputed. As long as there is another champ or even just a contender out there, with a realistic chance (say anything better than 25%, but might as well say lower) of beating him, he is never undisputed.
I would rate AA the fave between them, should they meet. Others have shots as well.
This "undisputed" concept is being flung around WAY to easily, when ppl are ready to suggest it about Pavlik, based just on his win last night.
dumdane is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:50 AM   #11
boxfan99
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,122
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Yes, he is undisputed since he beat the undisputed champion.
boxfan99 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:55 AM   #12
Carlos Primera
Martinez is a badman
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Obama can keep the change
Posts: 3,563
vCash: 75
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
I agree that Pavlik is the most legit champ at 160 but he is not undisputed.
and why is that?? you guys are looking at being undisputed with some sort of set of rules such as collecting all bull shit paper titles. jesus christ, it simply means that his claim of being champion is legitimate and cannot be questioned. aside from pavlik who can claim to being champion? paper titlist like abraham or sturm? you say he's the legit champ at 160 but not undisputed, what kind of convoluted bull shit is that?
Carlos Primera is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:56 AM   #13
Carlos Primera
Martinez is a badman
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Obama can keep the change
Posts: 3,563
vCash: 75
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxfan99
Yes, he is undisputed since he beat the undisputed champion.
there it is! i could'nt have said it better my self.
Carlos Primera is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:59 AM   #14
Grabonator
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 474
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Let Pavlick fight Abraham, the winner will be undisputed. Nobody cares about Sturm, he would be easy work for both Pavlick and Abraham.
Grabonator is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2007, 08:59 AM   #15
dumdane
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 99
vCash: 1000
Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooke
i know about those categories very well, but thats just going into technicalities. the fact of the matter is pavlik is THE champion at 160, that is undisputable. undisputed simply means that you're claim to being the champion is undisputable for a variety of reasons.

take calzaghe for example. it is undisputable that he is the champ at SMW.
Totally disagree. Undisputed should only be used when there's not a single opponent willing to take him on, with a reasonable/realistic chance of succes.
That is not the case for Pavlik and neither for Calzaghe.

Apart from that i don't even agree with your example that Calzaghe's status as SMW champ is undisputed. He never "beat the man to become the man". He has a very clear rival who is undefeated and holds two major belts. Nothin "undisputable" about that.
dumdane is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013