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Old 09-30-2007, 09:00 AM   #16
pipe wrenched
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

He is the Universally Recognized MW Champion. How's that?
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:01 AM   #17
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

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Originally Posted by Cooke
and why is that?? you guys are looking at being undisputed with some sort of set of rules such as collecting all bull shit paper titles. jesus christ, it simply means that his claim of being champion is legitimate and cannot be questioned. aside from pavlik who can claim to being champion? paper titlist like abraham or sturm? you say he's the legit champ at 160 but not undisputed, what kind of convoluted bull shit is that?
Your "definition" takes any meaning out of the word "undisputed".
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

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Originally Posted by pipe wrenched
He is the Universally Recognized MW Champion. How's that?
I think AA would more likely win if they fought - so NO!
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

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Originally Posted by dumdane
I think AA would more likely win if they fought - so NO!
Oh.....YOU THINK........MORE LIKELY, so I guess that settles it then.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

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Originally Posted by dumdane
Totally disagree. Undisputed should only be used when there's not a single opponent willing to take him on, with a reasonable/realistic chance of succes.
That is not the case for Pavlik and neither for Calzaghe.
wtf kind of description is that?? that just means youre a dominant champion.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
No one is undisputed at 160 right now. Undisputed is not beeing about legitimate or cannot be questioned. It´s about the claim that no one in your weight class has the claim to beat you, that no one in your division can beat you. Hopkins cleaned out the division so he was undisputed even when a dangerous opponent rised becaue he preved it time and time again. Taylor was undisputed after the Hopkins fights but lost that claim after drawing with Winky and the rise of Abraham, Pavlik and Miranda. Undisputed is not about paper titles, also they help.
Undisuted is beeing the champ and nobody in your division is considered a real threat for you.
that does'nt change the fact that the fact that pavlik's claim at being champion is undisputed.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:13 AM   #22
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
I disagree.
explain
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:15 AM   #23
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
I did already, read my posts.
you talk about dominating the weight class, that just means you're a dominant champion. undisputed means that youre claim to being champ is legitimate. that is no one can question pavliks claim being champ.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Great performance, I hope he goes on to be a 160 and 168 star.

I was surprised that Taylor put up such a good showing. I had favoured Pavlik to win.

Pavlik must be ranked high in the P4P chart now for stopping Miranda and now Taylor and being undefeated with a very high KO ratio.
He's young, has a strong chin, heart and has the size to go 168 and 175.

In answer to the question, Pavlik is THE middleweight champion of the world. WBO,WBC and Ring Magazine champ. There are so many belts now that the "undisputed" titles don't last for long.
Sturm and Abraham are German based Alphabet title holders at 160.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:18 AM   #25
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UndisputedUK
In answer to the question, Pavlik is THE middleweight champion of the world. WBO,WBC and Ring Magazine champ. There are so many belts now that the "undisputed" titles don't last for long.
Sturm and Abraham are German based Alphabet title holders at 160.
thats what i've been saying all along. he is undisputably the champion of the world at that weight class. this confusing shit is just word play
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:20 AM   #26
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
You don´t want to get it, do you?
do you even know what disputed means?
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:24 AM   #27
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooke
wtf kind of description is that?? that just means youre a dominant champion.
No - I take the word UNDISPUTED quite LITTERAL - unlike you.

Hell, according to your definition Lacy might as well have been considered "undisputed" BEFORE fighting Calzaghe - simply down to the fact that a majority thought he'd beat Calzaghe, who in turn most ppl thought would beat everyone else. If anything YOUR definition is more about just being dominant (but way too early to call Pavlik that).

In fact - even though i'm a big Kessler fan - i do NOT think Kessler should be considered "undisputed", even if he beats Calzaghe. Sure there'd be a lot stronger case for it, than there is for calling Pavlik undisputed now. But there would still be up and comers like Bute with a realistic (though not good) chance of beating Kessler the next day.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
You arent undisputed because you beat the champ. Taylor was undisputed after he fought Hopkins but lost that claim after his draw with Winky and the emerging of Abraham, Pavlik and Miranda who were considered threads to his throne.
When you have first become undisputed, you can only lose it by either; losing in the ring, shifting weight class or retiring. A threat is not enough, because there will always be threats in some peoples eyes.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:29 AM   #29
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

ok
1 title : titlist
2 titles: unified titlist
3 titles: unfied champion
4 titles: undisputed champion

then you have

lineal: which is when you beat the man of the division who had beat the man before him and beat him ect ect.

ring belt: more for the best fighter in the division and this can be given to anyone of the above titlist unified titlist ect.

i think joel casamayor was still ring champion for almost a hwole year when he lost all his titles.

just my way of breaking it down.


at the moment i have pavlik as lineal and unified champion thus making him the 'man' of the division
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: is pavlik undisputed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
Well, then we agree. Pavlik is the universally recognized WBC WBO and Ring Magazine Midleweight Champion. But hes not undisputed. Winky, Abraham and Sturm all would dispute his championship, so he would have to beat at least two of them to be so.
this is what i've been trying to get across. i guess it comes down to how we define 'undisputed'. i see it in terms of all the abc straps confusing the hell out of people as to who the champ is, while pavlik brings clarity to the situation by his undisputable claim to being the one true champ. you define it as contenders 'disputing' pavliks claim by challenging him, hence paliks claim being disputed. all word play, but we more or less have the same idea. we cool on that?
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