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Old 10-02-2007, 08:36 AM   #166
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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I think that that being knocked down by Firpo is a lot less damaging than being knocked out by Ramhan however you present it. .
Well you think wrong, Firpo was not a boxer he was a circus strong man with zero boxing ability. Rahman at least knows how to punch properly. Not only that Rahman is a physical beast that would be far stronger than Firpo (Rahman bench pressed 550lbs). Not only that Rahman is very athletic, something that no one would ever accuse Firpo of being.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:38 AM   #167
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Originally Posted by hotti_killer
Holyfield is known as one of the toughest fighter's of all time, he hadn't just come up for cruiserweight (already beaten tyson etc), and lewis is only two years younger than evander so the age is not as big a point as you make out.
avtually Lewis was a late bloomer, his best performance was vs Rahman in 2001, whereas Holyfild had medical problems and had taken far more punishment. Holyfield was washed up. I still give Lewis credit but indeed if Lewis was so much better, he could have crushed the small bulked up cruiserweight
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:38 AM   #168
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Chris, Dempsey was down vs Tunney only becuase it was a flash knockdown, or even if it wasn't he was only down for a couple of seconds hardly a big deal. And even if you consider the Flynn ko legitimate, it only happened to him once, not twice. And he only had three years of pro experience up to the point, not years of amateur experience, and 6 years of pro experience when it happened
Plus he probably hadn't eaten in the last few days.

The Flyn loss is irrelevant if it was on the level and equaly irrelevant if it was not.

Dose anybody here give Flyn any credit for this win?
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:38 AM   #169
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Schmeling proved that he could even beat a greater p4p fighter against Mickey Walker.
Jack Sharkey fought Walker with somewhat less conclusive results.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:39 AM   #170
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

Funny how evander is just over 6'2, yet your comparing guys under 6 foot with him as a comparison.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:40 AM   #171
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Why wasn't this little cruiserweight crushed like Dempsey and Marciano would be?
I think the guys who pick Lewis to smash these smaller guys don't take Lewis' sometime mental deficiencies into account. If we look at the first round of Lewis-Tyson, an over the hill Tyson wins it, he bullies Lewis a little bit with aggression. Now Lewis also sets the tone for the win, he hits Mike with two cracking uppercuts and takes all the startch out of him - the old Tyson realises then that the job is to hard.

But a peak Dempsey against even a peak Lewis is a live fight IMO. As far as my top five goes (Ali, Louis, Liston, Lewis, Johnson) i'm happy to pick the other four over Dempsey, that is not hard for me, but I give Dempsey a real live chance v Lewis - Lewis may even be made for him.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:40 AM   #172
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Originally Posted by janitor

Well you think wrong, Firpo was not a boxer he was a circus strong man with zero boxing ability. Rahman at least knows how to punch properly. Not only that Rahman is a physical beast that would be far stronger than Firpo (Rahman bench pressed 550lbs). Not only that Rahman is very athletic, something that no one would ever accuse Firpo of being.
Firpo was certainly a legit contender at this point. He was crude but sneaky and knew how to feint an oponent into trouble.

I think it quite likley that he could knock Ramhan out.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:41 AM   #173
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Funny how evander is just over 6'2, yet your comparing guys under 6 foot with him as a comparison.
He's an example of someone who's come from a lighter weight to become an ATG in modern heavyweight boxing, so the comparison is valid.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:41 AM   #174
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Why wasn't this little cruiserweight crushed like Dempsey and Marciano would be?

What if this little cruiserweight had top end power like Dempsey or Marciano and was a few years younger?

What is there in these fights to suggest that an ATG under 200lbs will just get steamrolled?
Because Holyfield was 215lbs of ripped to the bone muscle with less bodyfat than dempsey. How do you know Holyfield didn't hit harder than Dempsey/Marciano - he was after all in with bigger more skilled opposition.

If your calling Holyfield a cruserweight because he was once 190lbs does that mean Dempsey is a light heavyweight because he started at 170lbs?
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:43 AM   #175
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Because Holyfield was 215lbs of ripped to the bone muscle with less bodyfat than dempsey. How do you know Holyfield didn't hit harder than Dempsey/Marciano - he was after all in with bigger more skilled opposition.

If your calling Holyfield a cruserweight because he was once 190lbs does that mean Dempsey is a light heavyweight because he started at 170lbs?
Holyfield was a cruiser when he was an adult. Dempsey was a light-heavy when he was an underfed teen. Holyfield was also a light-heavy as a teen, he competed in the Olympics as a light-heavy
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:43 AM   #176
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Nice list though. Your top five is quite similiar to my head to head top 5, whatever that tells you...i have Liston higher and Tyson lower.
Yet its ok that Bert Sugar has the similarly accomplished Tunney in his top10

Do you have a top25 McGrain? I made a top100 a year ago but need to change quite a few names around
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:44 AM   #177
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
From record and the films i think they had about equal power. The difference in power between the top guys there is very marginal.

Chinwise i think Lewis fought more very good punchers than Dempsey while beeing floored only twice but than he was also knocked out one time and stopped the other. I think Dempsey had a slightly better chin.
I think you are close to spot on, though Dempsey may not have had a better chin (marginal).

My point is, if this is the case, what huge advantages are left for the bigger guys? If they are not more powerful, if they are not more resistant to big punchers, what is their real advantage?

Lewis is an example of a fighter who is very very good at being big, he uses his size well. Dempsey is a fighter with wonderful rythym breaking head movement. Both of these factors are just stylistic factors to be solved. They aren't deal-breakers, either of them.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:44 AM   #178
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

My point is that he was saying that evander was a simular size to dempsey and marciano as comparison when he was clealry alot bigger.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:45 AM   #179
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Originally Posted by hotti_killer
My point is that he was saying that evander was a simular size to dempsey and marciano as comparison when he was clealry alot bigger.
Dempsey was 6'1 with a 77 inch reach, same as Holyfield. So evender took drugs and was 20 lb heavier, not such a huge deal, Dempsey could have done it too.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:45 AM   #180
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Default Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

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Yet its ok that Bert Sugar has the similarly accomplished Tunney in his top10
Does seem excessive...

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Do you have a top25 McGrain? I made a top100 a year ago but need to change quite a few names around
A hundred is an impressive thing. I haven't been past 20. If I try to go any further than that it gets all mushy.
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