The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT - Page 4

My dinner with Conteh · 10-01-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roxyboxy

Seriously, the UK will have another decent boxer in about 30 years.

I don't give a toss if it ever has a decent heavyweight again. But I do know he'll weight more than 185 pounds.

My dinner with Conteh · 10-01-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roxyboxy

Really? I completely change my opinion, then. All vague references consisting of one sentence do that to me.

Thought you would. So much for killer Shavers, eh.

My dinner with Conteh · 10-01-2007, 04:09 PM

I have noticed Dempsey is the one legend that appears to be going down and further down lists as the years go by. At last some sense.

roxyboxy · 10-01-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Yeah, good post. I respect lots of writers but i like to look at different sources too. I always found the NY Times and Ring more biased towards Americans than Boxing Illustrated were (in the 50s-80s) for example. Of course, Boxing News could be a the same with our fighters but at least they had different categories for Fighter and Fight of the year: i.e. British and World.

I only used Ring magazine's list as an example. In the creation of that list, I would wager that there was more debate and thinking going on among more persons than in this particular post, and so it is a synthesis of knowledge. It certainly wasn't written "by a magazine" since no such thing exists.

I was a professional researcher of history for many years. I know the value in looking at all kinds of sources: primary, secondary, written, oral, graphic, etc.

Every source has a bias. I don't see the NYT as being overly nationalist any more than I see any self-selected sample as being primary. There is simply more boxing and the draw money are in the States.

roxyboxy · 10-01-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

I have noticed Dempsey is the one legend that appears to be going down and further down lists as the years go by. At last some sense.

I don't know. Where are some of those lists?

I would say that it's pretty popular to find fault with the legitimacy of various athletes when the matter of race integration was a factor in their social environment.

roxyboxy · 10-01-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Thought you would. So much for killer Shavers, eh.

I never would have compared the two. Shavers had more than 80 pro fights, cooney I think around 30. Shavers should have punched a hole in his chest, but alas.

roxyboxy · 10-01-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

I don't give a toss if it ever has a decent heavyweight again. But I do know he'll weight more than 185 pounds.

Yeah, I spent some time in London and saw a bunch of them passed out outside of the pubs.

Just give them some gloves and some bus money.

My dinner with Conteh · 10-01-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roxyboxy

Every source has a bias. I don't see the NYT as being overly nationalist any more than I see any self-selected sampleabeinprimary. There is simply more boxing and the draw money are in the States.

I was referring to some of their scorecards: Leonard over Duran, Antuofermo over Minter. Nah.

roxyboxy · 10-01-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

I was referring to some of their scorecards: Leonard over Duran, Antuofermo over Minter. Nah.

Sure. Still, those are pretty self-serving examples. But what you're talking about is a larger problem in boxing: ridiculous outcomes.

janitor · 10-01-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

So, when's the next 185 pound dominant heavyweight arriving then?

Never.

You have to weigh 183 lobs to fight at heavyweight today.

When will a cruiserweight step up to win a belt at heavyweight?

Posibly soon.

janitor · 10-01-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Seriously, you want to get over your little man syndrome.

You need to get over your strategy of picking the outcomes of fights based on size difarential with zero analysis of styles.

It is not sound practice.

rydersonthestorm · 10-01-2007, 05:51 PM

Well i know its abit premature buy david haye is going upto heavyweight after a fight with mormeck, i am not saying he is going to be amazing before anyone starts but with the state of the heavyweights and haye's power and speed it could happen for him.

janitor · 10-01-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

I don't give a toss if it ever has a decent heavyweight again. But I do know he'll weight more than 185 pounds.

Ironicaly if there is a British heavyweight titleholder in the next four years it probably will be sombody who started their career at cruiserweight.

McGrain · 10-01-2007, 06:06 PM

In my opinion, Lewis is a reasonable pick at #3 (he's found his way up to #4 on my list) but you have work to do regarding the Ali/Louis legacy to put him any higher.

This work has to be done objectively which would be difficult. It is negative in its natre and pretty shitty work for a forum like this. It would be hard to come across as anything other than a hatchet man - and probably for a very good reason.

McGrain · 10-01-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

Ironicaly if there is a British heavyweight titleholder in the next four years it probably will be sombody who started their career at cruiserweight.

I think you love Dempsey and overate him because of this.

Would you say that that might be a fair observation or do you feel i'm way off?

10-01-2007, 04:09 PM	#48
My dinner with Conteh P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21,599 vCash: 1000	Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT I have noticed Dempsey is the one legend that appears to be going down and further down lists as the years go by. At last some sense.
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10-01-2007, 05:51 PM	#57
rydersonthestorm Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,013 vCash: 1000	Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT Well i know its abit premature buy david haye is going upto heavyweight after a fight with mormeck, i am not saying he is going to be amazing before anyone starts but with the state of the heavyweights and haye's power and speed it could happen for him.
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10-01-2007, 06:06 PM	#59
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,252 vCash: 1000	Re: The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT In my opinion, Lewis is a reasonable pick at #3 (he's found his way up to #4 on my list) but you have work to do regarding the Ali/Louis legacy to put him any higher. This work has to be done objectively which would be difficult. It is negative in its natre and pretty shitty work for a forum like this. It would be hard to come across as anything other than a hatchet man - and probably for a very good reason.
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