Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-24-2010, 04:30 AM   #16
zadfrak
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,346
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

I forget the purses but attended the fight. It was a non-title fight between 2 big names with a lot to lose for the guy not getting the W. The crowd was about 90% Frazier 5% Foreman and 5% didn't care. That's a misconception or forgotten or neglected important facet of those early Foreman fights; the guy was more often not the crowd favorite. A fair amount of folks were picking Joe in the upset due to George's previous 2 outings against Ali and Lyle.

That's something you don't see often and almost always you see a cheering crowd get behind their guy & that momentum most assuredly counts for something. Foreman was the rare breed that really didn't have that kind of advantage.
zadfrak is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-24-2010, 04:51 AM   #17
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Well, Frazier shaved his head and tried to box Foreman from the outside early on, but that was short-lived.... By round 3 Foreman was teeing off on Frazier pretty good and it was just a matter of time that Foreman would get his man (Frazier) out of there...... Frazier was gallant, but over-matched---again......

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 05:37 AM   #18
zadfrak
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,346
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

That's what I was betting on.

But there was a contingent of folks picking Joe in this. A lot of people thought Foreman was ruined after the Ali fight and would never recover. A guy ready to be taken and very vulnerable. If you bought into that, the Lyle bout kind of confirmed things. If you didn't buy into it, it was hard to explain/justify that Lyle bout.

The main reasons I really liked the Foreman chances were his ability to cut off the ring on guys. Extremely underestimated. Where was Joe going to go in there? And the shoving to get guys right where he wanted them. What those 2 things did was to put a guy in position for those Foreman uppercuts. Either hand and not telegraphed and thrown off the wrong foot even and devastating. To beat a Foreman, I always thought it had to be a guy difficult to hit w/ uppercuts. Take that best punch away.

So Joe came out and fought a survivors fight for a little bit but it sure felt like the wall was going to cave in on the guy. Just a matter of time & kind of like the Tyson--Tyrell Biggs fight or Lewis--Morrison. It was a case of the one guy doing everything he could to stay in there with the opponent but you just felt that the ballgame was going to be over soon and those tactics were simply not going to hold up for 3 minutes a round. You can sense it and feel it at the fights and that's an experience you don't always get catching it on the tube.
zadfrak is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 04:02 PM   #19
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadfrak View Post
That's what I was betting on.

But there was a contingent of folks picking Joe in this. A lot of people thought Foreman was ruined after the Ali fight and would never recover. A guy ready to be taken and very vulnerable. If you bought into that, the Lyle bout kind of confirmed things. If you didn't buy into it, it was hard to explain/justify that Lyle bout.

The main reasons I really liked the Foreman chances were his ability to cut off the ring on guys. Extremely underestimated. Where was Joe going to go in there? And the shoving to get guys right where he wanted them. What those 2 things did was to put a guy in position for those Foreman uppercuts. Either hand and not telegraphed and thrown off the wrong foot even and devastating. To beat a Foreman, I always thought it had to be a guy difficult to hit w/ uppercuts. Take that best punch away.

So Joe came out and fought a survivors fight for a little bit but it sure felt like the wall was going to cave in on the guy. Just a matter of time & kind of like the Tyson--Tyrell Biggs fight or Lewis--Morrison. It was a case of the one guy doing everything he could to stay in there with the opponent but you just felt that the ballgame was going to be over soon and those tactics were simply not going to hold up for 3 minutes a round. You can sense it and feel it at the fights and that's an experience you don't always get catching it on the tube.
Styles make fights..... I thought George Foreman looked fit and sharp as ever against Frazier in New York........ I think Joe Frazier still had gas in the tank in 1976, but he was just a poor match-up to Foreman......

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 01:44 PM   #20
Chaney
Mystery and Imagination
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Starving in the belly of a whale
Posts: 259
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

The ideal time for Frazier to retire would have been after his victory over Ali. Retired undefeated (he never added much to his legacy after that) and he'd have pissed off the man he hated, Ali...by refusing a rematch.

Frazier's was not a style that was destined to last. He took some hellacious punishment in Manila and vs Foreman twice. (not to mention some pointless defenses in between).

His body had had so much punishment and he had a lengthy stay in the hospital after FOTC...due to underlying health problems as well as the punishment he took. Hell, he fought Foreman II wearing contact lenses, if I remember correctly! Frazier has been damaged by too many fights.

Frazier (and Ali) could have earned millions more by accepting a % of the takings deal for FOTC. To be fair, I suppose the money paid up front he and Ali got was more than any other fighters had ever been paid before; so I can see why they grabbed the losing option.

Imagine if Ali had retired after regaining the championship against Foreman in Zaire. I'm sure he wouldn't be nearly as damaged as he is today.

As fans, I know it would be a loss not to have the incredible clash of the Titans in Manila...but for the sake of their health, both men should have been out of the game by then.
Chaney is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:42 PM   #21
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaney View Post
The ideal time for Frazier to retire would have been after his victory over Ali. Retired undefeated (he never added much to his legacy after that) and he'd have pissed off the man he hated, Ali...by refusing a rematch.

Frazier's was not a style that was destined to last. He took some hellacious punishment in Manila and vs Foreman twice. (not to mention some pointless defenses in between).

His body had had so much punishment and he had a lengthy stay in the hospital after FOTC...due to underlying health problems as well as the punishment he took. Hell, he fought Foreman II wearing contact lenses, if I remember correctly! Frazier has been damaged by too many fights.

Frazier (and Ali) could have earned millions more by accepting a % of the takings deal for FOTC. To be fair, I suppose the money paid up front he and Ali got was more than any other fighters had ever been paid before; so I can see why they grabbed the losing option.

Imagine if Ali had retired after regaining the championship against Foreman in Zaire. I'm sure he wouldn't be nearly as damaged as he is today.

As fans, I know it would be a loss not to have the incredible clash of the Titans in Manila...but for the sake of their health, both men should have been out of the game by then.
Again, I hear that about Frazier retiring..... BUT! He got damn near 3 million from Manila in 1975..... How much bread did he get for the rematch with Foreman in New York? I never heard the payday there......


MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 04:07 PM   #22
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,954
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
I am kickin' back tonight sippin' booze and toking on a cigar reviewing fights at the moment..... I have "Foreman-Frazier 2" from New York rolling right now...... Despite Frazier getting his ass TKO'd by Foreman in round 5, I still enjoyed this fight a whole lot.......

NOW! The "Weight" issue..... Joe Frazier and George Foreman BOTH weighed 224 1/2 pounds for this fight in 1976....... George Foreman looked solid and well in tune with his training at the time.... HOWEVER! Joe Frazier was five years older at age 32 by the time this rematch occurred and was nearing the end of his career....... STILL! Upon further review, I honestly do NOT feel Frazier appeared to be a gross looking slob at 224 1/2 pounds.... Yes, it was his heaviest fighting weight ever up to that point... But he didn't look grossly outta shape...... I feel a 32 year old Frazier at 224 pounds could've whipped several key heavies at that time; just not Foreman, Ali or Norton in '76.......

Any takers care to comment?

MR.BILL
He looked in better shape than ,Johnson,Sanders, Williams, Peter,Gomez and Arreola did against Vitali
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 08:00 PM   #23
Chaney
Mystery and Imagination
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Starving in the belly of a whale
Posts: 259
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Again, I hear that about Frazier retiring..... BUT! He got damn near 3 million from Manila in 1975..... How much bread did he get for the rematch with Foreman in New York? I never heard the payday there......


MR.BILL
Can millions compensate you for a scrambled brain?

As I said, he (and Ali) lost quite a few million by not choosing to take a % of the FOTC revenue, instead of a flat fee.

Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing...
Chaney is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:25 PM   #24
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
STILL! Upon further review, I honestly do NOT feel Frazier appeared to be a gross looking slob at 224 1/2 pounds.... Yes, it was his heaviest fighting weight ever up to that point... But he didn't look grossly outta shape......
He looked out of shape even when he only weighed 10 pounds above his FOTC weight; now he was another 10 pounds on top of that. How fat would he have needed to get in order to qualify as "grossly out of shape" in your mind?
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 10:10 PM   #25
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaney View Post
Can millions compensate you for a scrambled brain?

As I said, he (and Ali) lost quite a few million by not choosing to take a % of the FOTC revenue, instead of a flat fee.

Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing...
A % take is nice, but also risky business....... Especially when you are already each guaranteed 2.5 million dollars each for flat-out payday, which was a record for 1971....

And yes, aging fighters often risk their own health for a sizable payday when they are beyond their peak years... It happens all the time....


MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013